Perfect Defence : can we use players who were on the bench ?

Post by **Old Man Draco** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:57 am

Of course if this would happen while driving a car, the drive would have started and then I would oppose fielding bench players!

hoomin_erra · Post by **hoomin_erra** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:21 am

But you're not allowed to drive anymore due to failing eyesight, and slowed reflexes, so it's a moot point.

unless you consider the drive to have started once you show the bus driver your OAP pass.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:40 am

With regards to secret weapons "Once a drive ends that this player has played in at any point, the referee orders the player to be sent off"

For me that would mean more than being set up and re-organised off the pitch.

I don't really think this circumstance needs to be covered in the rule book either. The frequency it matters is very very low and I can't see any real exploit that gives a major advantage - taking a kicker off the pitch is as good as it gets.

Playing it either way works, so whatever people are happy with is fine. It just isn't a big enough issue to warranty an entry in the rules.

How it should work if I were writing the rules for the first time... well you'd do the kick result first, then the kick. Then it would be fine

Then you just need to change high kick. That would also have the added benefit of weakening Blitz (also Quick Snap which isn't so good). High Kick would revert to bad kick. I don't think the other kick results are affected.

Aino · Post by **Aino** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:27 am

Once a drive ends that this player has played in at any point, the referee orders the player to be sent off

...
does that mean that if the SW doesn't do anything (not move, block,...how about assisting...) , he can't be sent off ?!

W.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:54 pm

Aino, I agree with you ... Ian's comments doesn't make sense ... because if being placed on the pitch is not playing then you have a mess trying to decide what playing means.

Sorry Ian ... I disagree and think this one really does needs clarified.

Galak

Tripleskull · Post by **Tripleskull** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:46 pm

This is solvable be common sense. Even though the rulebook clealy is unclear.

The perfect defence happens after it has bin decided were the ball lands. That must mean that the ball has bin kicked. This it confirmed by the fact that a kick player might have used his skill. I believe the only sensible point for letting the drive start is the point of the kick - like in American football. Hence the expression kick-off...

I know this is not american football, but come on guys. substituting after kick-off makes no sence.

By the way I can imagine lots of situations where you could benefit from it other than benching your kicker. You might wont to bring in more AV to put more people on the line or you might wonna put in your offencive star, since you got a golden oppotunity to turn over the ball. Im not saying it will happen many times or that the benefits is great, but there are more to it than the kick issue.

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:53 pm

I think the simplest and most logical correction would be to just add a bit of text to the kick off table saying you may re-setup the players currently on the pitch.

olsen667 · Post by **olsen667** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:04 pm

bouncergriim wrote:I think the simplest and most logical correction would be to just add a bit of text to the kick off table saying you may re-setup the players currently on the pitch.

IF that is the original intention of this kick-off-table-result.
I think, that's all, the BBRC-members need to think about:
What do we want to do with "perfect defense"?
Can you substitute players or not?

Doesn't make sense to me to think an discuss about possible scenarios, where the one or other option could be somehow abused, like it happened in the last posts.
Common sense says, you can't substitute, because the kick itself has already happened, rules don't clearly forbid that, maybe because no one thought about substituting players before?
Has anyone ever played a perfect D result like that?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:21 pm

olsen...

that is how this thread started ;]

i agree shouldn't be allowed to do subs at this point tho

easiest solution all round and plenty of space in the rulebook to add that on the KO table page

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:17 pm

Grumbledook wrote: easiest solution all round and plenty of space in the rulebook to add that on the KO table page

I completely agree.

Galak

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:26 pm

How many of all you coaches have hade a problem with this real life blood bowl gaming?

I think it's theory we are into

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:38 pm

again, this was the reason the thread was started...

bouncergriim · Post by **bouncergriim** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:45 pm

I seems like theory, but I believe clarity is important and if the question has come up and will only take a line on the KO table, not a major rewrite. Why not do it. I like to have things spelled out so we don't have to argue about a rule.

And I do see a point with this and the use of different secret weapons.

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:58 pm

Stashman - the stuation has arisen for me in practical play several times.

I suggest the rules should be clarified (small addition to the Kick-Off table text, plus possible additional text to the Kick skill).

As said before, we only argue about these things because of a lack of clarity in definition of terms. For example, what constitutes a drive, or a turn. So another way of addressing the problem might be to define these terms.

Hope this helps.

Marlow · Post by **Marlow** » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:09 pm

As our league commisioner I would say you can only reorganise the players who are on the pitch. I do agree though that it is not clear as written.