Snotpicks

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:07 pm

Skipper, I agree that Stand Firm would be GREAT for nr 2 if it cancelled out Strip Ball and I agree that the rules are a bit unclear, but sadly enough I've got a gut feeling that I've heard that it doesn't but noone would be happier than I if Galak or someone with his dignity and authority said that it does.

So, as it stands now Nr 2 are destined for (if I doesn't roll some doubles) Break Tackle and after that Stand Firm as I think that the sideline (and the line of scrimmage) is the Ogre Team's two best friends.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:36 pm

Skipper you are mistaken in your interpretation.

Strip ball takes effect because a push result is chosen from the blocking dice.

Stand Firm just means that when a push result is applied to you you can elect not to move. It does not mean that there was no push result.

In 3rd ed it used to be different wording with more ambiguity, but this is the first time I've seen anyone raise it for a while.

Skipper · Post by **Skipper** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:47 am

Skipper wrote:
Strip Ball: ......applying a "Push" or Defender Stumbles" result will cause the opposing player to drop the ball in the square they are pushed to, .....

Respectfully,

Skipper

So according to the strip ball rules the ball scatters from the space they are pushed too, if the stand firm player refuses to be pushed, they are not pushed to a new square and therefore the ball is not scattered. Yes, this is weak on iuts own, but I just don't see enough too change my mind. The truth is this probably will never come up in our current league, but I'd love to hear an official ruling.

I'll repost this comment over to the ruling section to get a definitive decision. Please don't take it wrong if I dig for more information

Respectfully,

Skipper

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:25 am

As Ian is on the Blood Bolw Rules Committee, I think you have your official ruling...

Cramy · Post by **Cramy** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:49 pm

PubBowler wrote:As Ian is on the Blood Bolw Rules Committee, I think you have your official ruling...

Uuhh, yep. Doesn't get more official than this.

But you are free to dig around some more though.

Skipper · Post by **Skipper** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:38 pm

Didn't know that Ian was on the committee, and Tom gave the same response on the rules forum.

The good news is that now if it comes up again we can refer to the rules forum and clear things up quickly.

Skipper

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:22 pm

Hmmm... a revision of this rule might be just what Stand Firm needs to be a viable competitor for Side Step on doubles with G access. This would be bad for Strip Ball, though.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:54 pm

sidestep and stand firm have different applications

stand firm was made worse after traits were removed from the game, if it needed boosting (which imo it doesn't really) just revert it back

stripball is already countered by sure hands nerfing it even more would be silly

especially overturning the way the rules have worked for this instance since 1994 and there has never been a big argument that it is remotely broken

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:02 pm

I'm not saying it's broken. I'm saying that SF is all-but categorically inferior to SS. The old dodge rule was too much, but now SF has dropped from "Power 7" to "upper-2nd-tier" and a consolation prize for blockers who don't have the real deal (SS) on their menu.

Now it's Power 5.5: Dodge, Block, SS, Guard, Frenzy and, conditionally, MB, with SF down there hanging out with Tackle, Wrestle, Kick, SH, Grab, Juggy and the like. It's still better than Fend (unless you have SS also...), meaning there's a three-tier hierarchy for positioning skills. If this is deliberate, that's ok. But it is something to be aware of. Yeah, there are some situational exceptions, but the general rule is that SS rocks and SF is merely worthwhile.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:51 pm

i disagree, they both have their advantages and uses differing on the player build

guard and standfirm is just as good as guard and sidestep

standfirm and tentacles imo is better than sidestep and tentacles

guess I'm just used to using stand firm a lot from playing chaos dwarfs loads

wasn't sure what your power 7 and power 5 was at first (kinda like when people use NFL positions for players skill builds)

I assume that means the best 7 now 5 skills in the game?

if so, I'd put dodge block and guard above all the others, sidestep and frenzy are down there with the rest of your second tier

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:41 pm

Another match played. Sadly I lost after a td in the last turn but at least I've got two Ogres improving.

My Block, Dodge, Guard Ogre got a new skill (Break Tackle)
And my only Ogre that hadn't an improvement rolled 4+6 so AV, MA, or skill. I was thinking about making him a thrower but I'm tempted by MA+1. AV isn't costeffective if you ask me though. What do you think?

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:18 am

With no +MA ogres yet, you should pick that. Who knows, you might get a 7MA ogre some day, and 2TSs become a stronger possiblity! Plus 6MA adds a lot more real-estate to the amount of backfield that ogre can play safety for.

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:57 am

If he already had Block and Guard I'd be tempted with AV10. But as it is, I'd take the MA.

~Andromidius

Mr_lemon · Post by **Mr_lemon** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:26 pm

Leaning towards MA+1. But if I do, what shall be his next improvement? My initial thought was to make him my designated thrower (as I was hoping for a double or AG+1

) But now he can be my defender with his MA+1 like Tenwit said, but what should I take next then? Juggernaut, or something entirely different? And if I get lucky and roll stat increase (then I'll take MA, AG, or ST but not AV) but what to take on a double?

My current ogre lineup
Ogre1 MA+1
Ogre2 Block, Dodge, Guard, Break Tackle
Ogre3 Strong Arm, Guard
Ogre4 Guard
Ogre5 Guard
Ogre6 Break Tackle.

I was considering Stand Firm for Ogre 4&5 so they can defend the ballcarrier or act as road-bumps. But atm I'm a bit clueless what to take on the others to get the best synergy from their skills. As I said I would really like to have a good reliable thrower so my current dreamscenario is a double or a AG+1 on Ogre nr3 but what to take if I don't. The strength category isn't exactly filled with good skills for throwers...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:01 pm

I'd seriously consider Stand Firm for 2, 3 or 5.

For that matter, you have two BT guys, reducing the value of the extra MA on the other guy, as you don't want to give him BT now. Not advising against it, as it's a good option and hard-to-get, but your team gets such a kick out of Guard, with all its ST1 and ST5.

I've noticed you have no Grab or Juggernaut. Does your league just not use a lot of positioning skills?