Bashing Elf

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:57 am

If coaches simply forgot about anything but the blitzers and witch elves and linemen for the first 10-20 games, the team wouldn't suck so bad.

That's my guess. The runner and the assassin are not good pieces, but they look fun. Using them too much means that you aren't using the really good pieces on the squad.

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:53 am

Concentrate on your cadre of blitzers. The other stuff is real nice but basicly just for fun and a slight boost, your blitzers are the meat of the team.

There is no reason to give the team an upgrade because its already one of the strongest.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:43 am

plasmoid wrote: So, what they need is a bit of starting stability. I can see potential 2 sources:
1) Give the runner sure hands over dump-off. Dump-off was cute fluff, but the team struggles. And sure hands was specifically avoided to not make the team too good. It clearly wouldn't be!

2) Give the assassins dodge over shadowing. A bit of out-of-the-box mobility would make these players more useful for the team.

IF (and I'm still a long way from convinced) that D Elves need a nudge up these are the two pieces that should be looked at.

Both are positionals that are 50-50 as to whether coaches take them at all, ever, not even Skaven throwers are ignored in the same way.

And Plasmoid is right, a price boost is counter-productive.

I favour a boost to the assassins, I see more teams take runners and believe them to be more useful, but:

+1 MA
Dodge added
Dodge swapped for Shadowing

would all work for me.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:22 pm

That would at least help. If the assassin were to be made a viable player, then it could be used for what it was intended. But as it is, it is such a weak player that it isn't worth taking. Giving him +1 MA would definately help, and either adding dodge or replacing shadowing with dodge would add to his potential.

As for Dump Off, that's the only skill that Passing type players are given out of the box that nobody ever takes as a skill up. Even Hail Mary Pass is taken more. Sure hands would be a much better skill for the runner.

I still like the idea of giving the Witch Elves strength access, but if the above fixes were put into place, I could live with it.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:04 pm

Just combine the runner and the assassin to make one useful piece

7 3 4 7 Dodge, Shadowing GAP/S 90k

So you lose Dump-Off... who cares. The runners sucked. And the assassin loses Stab... Once again, who cares- it's either a super cheesy skill or a mostly useless one, so who cares.

The problem with the above? It puts too much block and dodge on the starting Dark Elf roster. Maybe if Dodge was changed to something else... Kick-Off return, Fend, Catch?

I think I'd go with almost any change that didn't force the dark elves to rely on unavailable minis (Assassins) or lame concepts (the runner)

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:41 pm

Runners
7 3 4 7 Kick-Off Return, Strip Ball GAP/S 90K

This would make the Runner work good on both offence and defence without being "broken".

Assassin
6 3 4 7 Dirty Player, Sneaky Git, Stab A/GPS 100K

Maybe the assassin will become "better" if he was a "dirty killer" with only Agility Access (so he won't be a Blodger to easy).

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:45 pm

I think on the runner, I'd still prefer to just change out the dump off for sure hands. I think it would still stick the the theme the rules committee had for a runner, but give him a better skill to start with.

As for the Assassin, he needs a lot of help. +1 MA would do wonders. Or maybe morf the Shadowing skill a bit and give him a bonus to get it to work occassionally.

stashman · Post by **stashman** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:13 pm

It would fit the fluff to have sure hands on runner, but it's a major good skill when starting with AG4.

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:24 pm

yep, I agree, but then, so isn't pass on all the other elf throwers. And completing a pass does add to SPP. Sure hands doesn't.

I'd love to see:

0-16 Linemen 70K 6 3 4 8 none GA/SP
0-2 Runners 80K 7 3 4 7 sure hands* GAP/S
0-2 Assassins 90K 7* 3 4 7 dodge* stab GA/PS
0-4 Blitzers 100K 7 3 4 8 block GA/PS
0-2 Witches 110K 7 3 4 7 jump up, dodge, frenzy GA/PS

You could just leave shadowing and add dodge to the Assassin and add another 10K to the cost, or just drop the Assassin altogether and add ST access to the Witches. Either would work.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:38 pm

The BBRC is against Sure Hands on the Dark Elf runner, so that's never happening. I like Kick-Off Return, Pass, or Sure Feet on them.

Personally, I prefer a 7 3 4 8 GAP/S 80k Runner to what exists now with Dump-Off. I don't think that will be happening either!

Andromidius · Post by **Andromidius** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:23 pm

Dauntless!

Oh wait, that's Norse

~Andromidius

whitetiger · Post by **whitetiger** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:23 pm

I don't get it with that, either. They took an armour away and then made him a runner. Lighter armour, but get into the mix more. Duh.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:37 pm

Jural wrote:Just combine the runner and the assassin to make one useful piece

7 3 4 7 Dodge, Shadowing GAP/S 90k

So you lose Dump-Off... who cares. The runners sucked. And the assassin loses Stab... Once again, who cares- it's either a super cheesy skill or a mostly useless one, so who cares.

Another problem with the above is that it would invalidate a GW model: the Assassin.

So it's probably a no-no.

But I didn't like it anyway...

Oh and whitetiger: 7347 Dodge Stab for 90k is too cheap.

Jural · Post by **Jural** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:07 pm

PubBowler wrote:
Another problem with the above is that it would invalidate a GW model: the Assassin.

So it's probably a no-no.

??? Huh??? There aren't any, only an out of production Horkon Heartripper...

PubBowler wrote:
But I didn't like it anyway...

Fair enough

Hard to argue with that one.

PubBowler · Post by **PubBowler** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:20 am

Jural wrote:
PubBowler wrote:
Another problem with the above is that it would invalidate a GW model: the Assassin.

So it's probably a no-no.
??? Huh??? There aren't any, only an out of production Horkon Heartripper...

Not true, American Specialist games brought out two BB assassins.

I can only find a picture of one on TBB:

viewtopic.php?t=18190&start=0

But I have both models (in fact I own three of them but I can't remember which one I have a duplicate of).