Juggernaut vs. Wrestle

[stashman]

Juggernaut (Strength)
A player with this skill is virtually impossible to stop once he is in motion.
If this player takes a Blitz Action, then opposing players may not use
their Fend, Stand Firm or Wrestle skills against blocks, and he may
choose to treat a ‘Both Down’ result as if a ‘Pushed’ result has been
rolled instead.

So if a player has both Block and Juggernaut skills and is blitzing a Wrestle player, the Wrestle player don't get to use the skill and blitzing player can use Block to knock him over if player don't wan't to get "Pushed" result. Am I right, becuse I'm not 100% shure becuse I can read it as you have to choose "Pushed" to disable the opponents use of his skills.

[fen]

Block + Juggernaut on a blitz does indeed trump Wrestle.

The Blitzing player has Juggernaut which stop the opposing player from being able to use wrestle and then applies Block. Net result, a player who's payed 20K for a skill that doesn't work. You don't have to push back as that's a seperate part of the Juggernaut skill.

It's one of the reasons I have a Block, Juggernaut, Mighty Blow, Piling On Blitzer when I (rarely) play Humans or Orcs.

Just to break down how the skill is worded.

Juggernaut (Strength)
A player with this skill is virtually impossible to stop once he is in motion.
If this player takes a Blitz Action, then opposing players may not use their Fend, Stand Firm or Wrestle skills against blocks,

When Blitzing Fend, Stand Firm & Wrestle may not be used by the defending player. This part is always applied when Juggernaut is used.

and he may choose to treat a ‘Both Down’ result as if a ‘Pushed’ result has been rolled instead.

Optional part that can be applied in addition.

Essentially the main effect of Juggernaut is actually the "Ignore ability", the push back section is an optional extra that doesn't have to be applied when using Juggernaut.

[stashman]

Juggernaut is really good in combination with Block.

Even a goblin can get alot of use with Juggernaut, if you use him as a blitzer, to get pushbacks and crowd surfing. The problem is that Block is better on a poor goblin so there won't be much Juggernaut on the stunty guys!

A Chaos Beastman is probably one of the best players to give:

Juggernaut, Grab & Block (adding Strip Ball & Wrestle)

and only use him as a Blitzer.

[whitetiger]

Block + Juggernaut on a blitz does indeed trump Wrestle.

The Blitzing player has Juggernaut which stop the opposing player from being able to use wrestle and then applies Block. Net result, a player who's payed 20K for a skill that doesn't work. You don't have to push back as that's a seperate part of the Juggernaut skill.

I don't think you can do that, Fen. I don't think the skill cancels block altogether, it changes block to a push.

Juggernaut (Strength)
A player with this skill is virtually impossible to stop once he is in motion.
If this player takes a Blitz Action, then opposing players may not use their Fend, Stand Firm or Wrestle skills against blocks, and he may choose to treat a ‘Both Down’ result as if a ‘Pushed’ result has been rolled instead.

That doesn't say that block on the opponant's player is gone, just that you can use die roll of "both down" as a push. I don't think you can knock the guy down with a "both down" roll.

[Daefaroth]

To clarify what fen stated:

Blitzer has Juggernaut and Block
Target has Wrestle with no Block

Juggernaut cancels wrestle, that skill is negated.
Blitzer chooses both down, and does not convert to a push.
Blitzer uses Block to protect themselves on the both down, thus knocking over the target.

[GalakStarscraper]

To clarify what fen stated:

Blitzer has Juggernaut and Block
Target has Wrestle with no Block

Juggernaut cancels wrestle, that skill is negated.
Blitzer chooses both down, and does not convert to a push.
Blitzer uses Block to protect themselves on the both down, thus knocking over the target.

fen was correct. And Darkson's explaination of what Fen said is dead on as well.

Galak

[whitetiger]

Okay, I missed a part there. I thought both players had block.

So, that still leaves the question. If both players have block, the player blitzing with juggernaut rolls both down. The player being blocked does not go down, but can be pushed. Is that correct?

[Daefaroth]

Okay, I missed a part there. I thought both players had block.

So, that still leaves the question. If both players have block, the player blitzing with juggernaut rolls both down. The player being blocked does not go down, but can be pushed. Is that correct?

Yes, if both players had blitz, or even if positioning was more important than the possible injury, the blitzer could use juggernaut to choose a push result over the both down.

To clarify what fen stated:

Blitzer has Juggernaut and Block
Target has Wrestle with no Block

Juggernaut cancels wrestle, that skill is negated.
Blitzer chooses both down, and does not convert to a push.
Blitzer uses Block to protect themselves on the both down, thus knocking over the target.

fen was correct. And Darkson's explaination of what Fen said is dead on as well.

Galak

Despite what Galak may think, I am in fact not a figment of Darkson's demented imagination , even if I find a tend to agree with a lot of what he posts.

[GalakStarscraper]

Despite what Galak may think, I am in fact not a figment of Darkson's demented imagination , even if I find a tend to agree with a lot of what he posts.

Sorry about that ... typing fast saw "Da" and a rules answer and I jumped from there. Apologies.

Galak

[whitetiger]

Not sure what you wrote there, Daefaroth.

So, if the player blitzing has block and juggernaut, and the player being blitzed has block, then the player being blitzed cannot be put down, but can be pushed.

Is that correct?

[GalakStarscraper]

Not sure what you wrote there, Daefaroth.

So, if the player blitzing has block and juggernaut, and the player being blitzed has block, then the player being blitzed cannot be put down, but can be pushed.

Is that correct?

Correct

[whitetiger]

Thank you. I thought that's the way I read that rule. Juggernaut does not overcome block, just alters it a bit.