Wild Animal fix in progress

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:38 am

From GW Forum

> WA is broken and should be changed. (Again!)

It's on the agenda again for next year (2003). It won't be changed this year.

-Chet

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:09 am

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:43 pm

Why do they keep changing things if they are not going to make them better? I thought that was the whole reason for this rules review processs in the first place. I thought WA was ok the way it was before, then they changed it and now they reaslixe it is broken??!!

Heiper · Post by **Heiper** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:02 pm

I think its works perfectly well atm, it makes your choice "to take or not to take" alot harder than it was before.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:00 pm

The point is it shouldn't be "take or not take" it should be "use this turn or not use this turn"

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:10 pm

I agree with Heiper.
The whole point with the new BG rules, is making them somewhat of a liability. So you aren't sure if you want them. With the WA the way it is, a fast moving scoring team like skaven, has to make up it's mind wheter he is worth it.

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 3:55 pm

STILL prefer the "on a roll of 1 pre turn he moves like a Goblin Fanatic and blocks anything in his path, no dodge rolls needed" idea....
Think its dreadful that it ain't being changed this time around because I don't think its strong enough as is.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:23 pm

Thadrin:

That's the best solution I've heard yet for WA's. It gives an element of danger to them without making them the wussy backfield guards they have become in recent editions. As an added bonus, they aren't reliable ball handlers, either. Would they still need to be the first player to move on their team turn?

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:52 pm

They just can't leave well enough alone. all this tweaking to WA (which wasn't needed in the first place, and isn't needed now) takes time away from the fun rules. Leave it alone and fix the crap teams that JJ put out.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:18 pm

The problem with WA (which still really exists), is not in a position to be used at this time. The reason WA had to be tweaked can be seen by anyone who paid attention to the 1st season of MBBL2. Several WA's on a team are no problem really, the problem was basically the Minotaur team. More Appropriately the original problem was that the skill complicated and slowed the pace of the game down. Currently the problem that exists is that for a Minotaur team WA has no real bite. If all of your team has WA its very unlikely any opponents team will be able to force any 2 die blocks in their favor. Im guessing that they dint change WA at this time due to having to many options on how to change it and no consensus as to which is the correct change to make.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:35 am

So the problem existed only on a team that no longer exists and in a league where house rules are king? Hmmn...sounds like the problem was with the MBBL2.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 9:27 am

U dont like paying attention to details do u. The Ogres are coming back, which means the Minos will probably sooner or later. Secondly any league that used minos and the 2k1 rules would have this problem, however the mbbl2 is online and therefore easier for people to check (especially since most people in tbb at least have that site bookmarked as a rule library). So in direct answer to your questions No and No, but thanks for thanks for playing our game. Besides even if it is just one team (totally) breaking it, that certainly doesnt stop tbb'ers from wanting to change things. Hence a thread elsewhere on tbb where, due to the new Khemri team, many have noticed that PO can be abused. I may not agree with that belief but i respect their opinions and their choice to debate it. My comments in that thread therefore did not attempt to belittle their arguments.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:31 am

The minos are not on the list of teams that I have seen. And once again you are using a league as an example that had so many house rules and that it's really irrelevant. You aren't discussing WA as it pertains to that specific league. You were using that league as an example. It's not an example. It's not even the same game.

Wild Animal is not broken. There are no Minotaur teams. Not even experimental ones and not even a faint glimmer of one on the horizon. Ogres are in the making because they are in the fluff. There are no mino fluff teams. The Khemri discussion is of an experimental team. Ogres and Khemri are relevant to everyone who plans on using Vanilla LRB. Wild Animal is not broken. What's broken are a bunch of people making silly teams and then crying that something is wrong with the rules.
Just because some fool makes an unbalanced team doesn't make the skill broken and it doesn't mean anything outside of the league in which it was played. You can say that's all you mean but your post clearly states otherwise. You are talking about why the BBRC should change it. They shouldn't change it cuz it ain't broke! It works. There are no multiple WA teams that you are mentioning and it doesn't slow down the game.
Also you say that any league using minotaurs and BB2K1 will have the problems you list. Well, my table top league did't have them and the MBBL doesn't have them. Why is that? Hmmn. Maybe because they didn't house rule broken teams?

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:59 pm

Thadrin wrote:STILL prefer the "on a roll of 1 pre turn he moves like a Goblin Fanatic and blocks anything in his path, no dodge rolls needed" idea....
Think its dreadful that it ain't being changed this time around because I don't think its strong enough as is.

As they do have AG3, it would be nice if they had to dodge... Imagine a berserked WA moving about, then when he turns the other way, his clever opponent throws a tackle to his legs. Just to keep it sufficiently negative - otherwise too many of the times that WA fails the outcome would be boring: the wa just wonders around...

But using the throw-in template instead to give the coach some control sounds like a good idea to me (I wonder who it was that suggested it... me? ;-P). But then force it to move with the template either every turn as I suggested earlier or make the neg-roll 3+ or 4+. Full suggestion here: http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB/view ... 02&start=4

Post by **Thadrin** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 6:55 pm

Fine - have 'em make dodges if you want...I was thinking more of players not wanting any part of a Mino that has gone totally mental.

Dunno what was wrong with the old original WA myself. I do know I HATE the new version. Oh wow. He has to go first. Oh wow, he HAS to block if he has an opponent adjacent. Not negative enough. The old version was better, and I think the version I suggested is better still.

Agree with Pariah: Mino team TOTALLY irrelevant.