nice censorship (to Thadrin)...

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 10:35 am

First of all - deleting a discussion that deals with how the "barons" behave and treat newcomers, is imo not very democratic and could be compared to pissing in your pants. Its warm in the beginning but thereafter its not very pleasant. In other words - you can erase from now on till new years eve, but it doesn´t change the fact that some people on this forum are treating newcomers like shit.

In Deathwings case, he sighs when someones ask a Q - and he doesn´t apologize....

Would you like it if someone shook their head everytime YOU made an enquery?

... and yes... it used to be a friendly place... apparently its not... still you learn how to get along even in a hostile environment... Luckily there are plenty other "rule-skilled" newcomers who wil take their time to help us "not-so-rule-skilled" newcomers... ... the barons (whose help would be appreciated)... will just be ignored if they keep on insinuating stupidity and ignorance amongst those who dare ask a Q...

----

I wonder why he decided to lock it....

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 10:40 am

I don't even think this warrants a reply. I'm just gonna leave it here for people to read and draw their own conclusions.

Edit: I've locked this once, but on Nagash's request and in the interests of free speech, I'll let it go...
By all means comment, but keep it civil please.

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:34 am

I'm leaving this one well alone now, because if I reunlock the thread then I look like I'm stomping all over Deathwing's authority as a fellow moderator, and that is not a good thing. If I leave it, you accuse me of being one of your "barons" who rule this site with an iron hand. Ummm...It ISN'T LIKE THAT. This is a fairly run site, and we try our damndest to be fair to everyone. If you feel aggrieved, sorry - but we can't please everyone all the time.

Now, what I have done is put a note in the moderators lounge section. Seeing as how neither Deathwing or myself can be considered Neutral in this any longer I have asked that the other "Barons" assess the posts and make their own judgements.
----

This was said by Thadrin a few minutes ago... apparently it is a fairly run site...

My question to that is - How can they asses something you deleted?!!

----
But then Thadrin says following, which puts a sad ending to this discussion.

I really could care less. I'm washing my hands of this whole sorry business. You want to bitch about Deathwing then go ahead. The thread should be reopened now, by Deathwing I hasten to add, so you can flame to your hearts content.

I'll go back to treating everybody equally and deleting stuff I think oversteps the line, no matter who posts it.

Subject closed.
----

Listen to me - I know nothing of what code of ethics you moderators follow. But saying that you couldn´t careless to the fact that some people openly slap newcomers for asking Q´s (which was the intention (i think) of this forum) - actually makes me kinda sad.

But go ahead - wash your hands - and do it twice... it won´t change the fact that:

1) Deathwing treats newcomers like shit

2) You decided to get rid of the posts that followed - though not the one where Deathwing is being openly disrespectful. I guess you should all learn a bit more about human psychology and body language.

To me - and the rest of the world - sighing means that you are unhappy/irritated with the way a certain individual is handling a given situation. Something even a 3-year-old will understand and pick up.

so you say Thadrin:

I'll go back to treating everybody equally and deleting stuff I think oversteps the line, no matter who posts it.

To that I say: dare you delete Deathwings post? or is his behaviour acceptable?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:47 am

I think you have blown this out of proportion, he made one slight comment and apologised for it. I can't really see how you have a problem with this, even the person who originally posted accepted the apology.

Ive not been a member here long but i can't say i have ever seen someone treated with malice.

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:50 am

Grumbledook wrote:I think you have blown this out of proportion, he made one slight comment and apologised for it. I can't really see how you have a problem with this, even the person who originally posted accepted the apology.

Ive not been a member here long but i can't say i have ever seen someone treated with malice.

You haven´t followed the matter closely enoggh - his apology was meant for another thing he said... readmy post and you´ll se what I´m referring to... as to what Deathwing apologized for... now we can´t see cuz Thadrin (another moderator) decided to erase it...

I wonder why...

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:52 am

Nagash wrote: My question to that is - How can they asses something you deleted?!!

Actually I was referring to this topic then, so you couldn't accuse me or Deathwing of showing bias in how any discussion on "barons" was moderated...not the original topic which had been reduced to name calling and nagash crying foul.

Nagash wrote:Listen to me - I know nothing of what code of ethics you moderators follow. But saying that you couldn´t careless to the fact that some people openly slap newcomers for asking Q´s (which was the intention (i think) of this forum) - actually makes me kinda sad.

I am "washing my hands" of the discussion. Not of the responsibilities of moderating this site as fairly as possible.
I am tired of you moaning on and on about how we are somehow conspiring together to put down people who are new here.
So this post will be my final word on the subject, then someone else can take up the mantle of repsonding to your tiresome little tirades.

Nagash wrote: 1) Deathwing treats newcomers like s***

2) You decided to get rid of the posts that followed - though not the one where Deathwing is being openly disrespectful. I guess you should all learn a bit more about human psychology and body language.

To me - and the rest of the world - sighing means that you are unhappy/irritated with the way a certain individual is handling a given situation. Something even a 3-year-old will understand and pick up.

1) Deathwing apologised to Horekim for any offence caused. horekim accepted. this matter should have been laid to rest there, but for some reason you felt the need to come in and start moaning - and not even in a language that the person you were moaning at speaks. Who is treatting who badly now? (By the way - mind your language please.)

2) Deathwing's reply had a link that answered the original question. hence it wasn't removed. and how am I meant to assess Body language over the net?

nagash wrote: so you say Thadrin:

I'll go back to treating everybody equally and deleting stuff I think oversteps the line, no matter who posts it.

To that I say: dare you delete Deathwings post? or is his behaviour acceptable?

Deathwing was out of line, he apologised. the apology was accepted. In retrospect I should have left the apologies. I apologise to Horekim for that, having already apologised to Deathwing.

Then you start ranting. I am now losing count of the number of times I have pointed this out to you.

Where's Longfang's Headbanging smiley when I need it?

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 12:03 pm

2) Deathwing's reply had a link that answered the original question. hence it wasn't removed. and how am I meant to assess Body language over the net?

Thadrin - you can READ can´t you - this is what I´m referring to... perhaps i should have referred to the search mode... lol

*Sigh*. FAQs.
Also, re. sig pic: viewtopic.php?t=3141
_________________
The Wodell League

Given that you apparently take you responsebility as moderator very seriously - I ask you again... Is Deathwing above behaviour acceptable? Or are you afraid of "stomping all over Deathwing's authority as a fellow moderator, and that is not a good thing. If I leave it, you accuse me of being one of your "barons" who rule this site with an iron hand. Ummm...It ISN'T LIKE THAT. Well we´ll see - perhaps you´ll prove yourself wrong.

again.... read my post and you´ll see what I´m "ranting" about....

Also as far as I remember - Horekim immediate answer to DW was....
"Why bother posting if you are not willing to help in the first place?!" - thereby showing that I´m not the only one thinking DW is way out of line...

Deathwing apologized for saying: "FAQ´s" - not for openly showing that the Q was somewhat stupid... (by sighing).... need I chop it into stone in runic?!

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 12:18 pm

He apologised for that, and horekim didn't realise what he meant by the FAQ, which was understandable, but it did contain the answer to the question. Again there was an apology and a better explanation and iirc Horekim did also reply that he didn't realise the original reply was meant to be pointing to the FAQ with the answer and the apology was accepted and as far as i could see both considered the matter closed.

I did read it all, as i tend to read most things posted here, cause i got nothing better do being a sad gimp, who is signed off work ill at the moment. I assure you the moderators here do not pick on anyone, this is a fair place and I have not seen anyone complain about being treated badly or unfairly. If there are any, please feel free to make yourselves known.

The situation as I see it, was that you picked up on something innocent and have blown it up out of proportion. No one else has made complaints about this and the thread you referred to, wasn't even one that needed anyone else to comment on, as the misunderstanding between the two involved was resolved.

I think it was fair of Thardrin to delete those posts, but you seem to have taken it personally. No one was treating anyone unfairly as I see it and I believe that everyone else would see it this way as well. If anyone else thinks otherwise, I will accept their oppinion but no one here treats anyone unfairly, this is on the whole a self run community and as far as I am concerened it is a friendly one.

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 12:23 pm

Here another one who is not too happy....

Mojoshenpo
Rookie

Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 30
Location: Atlanta, GA. USA
Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:03 am Post subject: l_dauguet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just ask me: mojosbag@hotmail.com or post to the board and ignore the almighties....

Hell, no one should have to come off their thrones at Mount Olympus to be bothered with promoting this game and answering questions for a new player

I may get it wrong, but I'll take the time to humbly consider, research and answer....

'Course ya' could just end run all the egos and ask the creators: fanatic@games-workshop.co.uk they've been very civil and kind and never condescending....

btw - took me 30 seconds to find and I didn´t ask for help or use the search option.

I did read it all, as i tend to read most things posted here, cause i got nothing better do being a sad gimp, who is signed off work ill at the moment. I assure you the moderators here do not pick on anyone, this is a fair place and I have not seen anyone complain about being treated badly or unfairly. If there are any, please feel free to make yourselves known.

Grumbledook - seems like I´m not the only one... sadly...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:27 pm

Nagash,

Two things ... one I'm not locking the thread because Deathwing and Thradin asked not to ... but posting information sent to you via Private Email is about the most disrespecting thing you can do.

PM is usually an attempt by a person to take the mudslinging offline. If someone does that it is only common courtesy to go that route without bringing the mud back to the board. If I locked the thread it would be because of this. Your opinions are allowed to an extent that they relate to BloodBowl, but posting PMs to the board will not be permitted.

Now you can call me a baron or whatever, the truth is that I've always answered people's questions and been as friendly as I can we doing so even if its the 60th time I've done so, so I'm as close to impartial as I can get. Was Deathwing's original reply to Horekim a little short ... yes, it was .. but he did apologize. You are going on about how badly we treat newcomers, but Deathwing apologized and gave a link to Horekim to answer the question.

What we are trying to avoid for TalkBloodBowl is that it turns into the completely hostile environment that the Blood Bowl Locker Room became. Go there now, you'll see tumbleweeds cross the screen from it inactivity. The "barons" will continue to help people, and I hope you continue to help as well.

Also the owner of the board has requested that we locked out topics where the comments are basically flame wars or are starting to become them. That's our job since that is not TalkBloodBowl.

I think your classification of the moderators and senior members of the board doesn't match up at all with how they post. I'll tell you what I think all the senior members can agree to not post if they are not going to be civil as well ... well maybe Longfang won't agree with that, but I think in the end for the sake of the board everyone needs to suck back their egos.

What I will do in the future when a simple question is asked is post the thread the thread that answers the question and lock the thread. This will help clean up the clutter of the board and gets everything handled in as friendly a manner as possible.

All I'm asking is that we ALL (both newbies and long timers) remember that personal flaming and all its brothers just doesn't have a place here. If you want to engage in this please go to the Locker Room and make it live again.

So Nagash, before you reply, remember I AGREE with you that Deathwing's orginal comment to Horekim was not the greatest, but he did apologize. So yes, Thradin should have just locked the thread when he say it was turning into a flame war instead of deleting material. He job as moderators is to prevent fires and locking is preferable over deleting. I also agree that if a "baron" cannot answer a question without sighing that he probably should leave it unanswered. So I agree with you on a lot of stuff. I don't agree with posting any material from a PM to the board, and I don't agree with multiple threads that become personal attacks. So that's my take in a nutshell. I want this to be a clean place I can talk out Blood Bowl that all, I really don't want to create Blood Bowl Locker Room Jr.

Galak

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:00 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote: So Nagash, before you reply, remember I AGREE with you that Deathwing's orginal comment to Horekim was not the greatest, but he did apologize. So yes, Thradin should have just locked the thread when he say it was turning into a flame war instead of deleting material. He job as moderators is to prevent fires and locking is preferable over deleting. I also agree that if a "baron" cannot answer a question without sighing that he probably should leave it unanswered. So I agree with you on a lot of stuff. I don't agree with posting any material from a PM to the board, and I don't agree with multiple threads that become personal attacks. So that's my take in a nutshell. I want this to be a clean place I can talk out Blood Bowl that all, I really don't want to create Blood Bowl Locker Room Jr.
Galak

Yes he did apologize - but not for sighing which is why I criticized him in the first place... why write a *sigh* if not to show that you feel that the question being asked is a bit stupid and you are irritated that the person q´ing doesn´t perform in a way you want him to!?
... so yes he should basically just have written "check the faq"... but no... he had to point out that the question was stupid.

Thats no way to treat another person. Not in my world anyway.

A moderators job? - not my busieness to have an opinion on except for when he is openly slapping other people around and deleting material in a discussion which clearly shows that a moderator is "performed" way out of line. But hey censorship works - for those in power in China! Is that the way you want´t to go?

Posting pm material? - well - anything to show that some people just aren´t treated with the respect they deserve! Thadrin won´t even respond to my question if Deathwings behaviour is acceptable. He says he is washing his hands. Fine. I say he is simple showing that any slapping and undemocratic behaviour is accepted on his behalf - ie - he knows something is wrong but doesn´t want to do something. Thats nice isn´t it?

finally - I think this forum is the best and informative of all the ones I know... If newcomers were shown en egual amount of respect, I guess it could stay that way.

lastly here´s a little something for you people to chew on - just in case you were to step Deathwing on his toes.

Dude, what the f*ck is your problem? You are totally out of order here.
So I treat newcomers 'like shit' do I? Nice. Was it you who spent hours trawling through all the rules queries and collating them into one place, specifically to help out newbies? No, oh wait, that was me. I try to help out as and when I can. How many searches do you think I run weekly when the vast majority could do it themselves? Yes, I got a little exasperated in my reply to horekim, I also answered the question and apologised for being curt. It was all resolved until you came jumping in with whatever problem you're having.
Now what you call 'Barons' are amongst the longest registered members of this board. Back then it was a quiet and friendly board, and BBCentral was the place with all the traffic. Everybody migrated over here eventually, the vast majority because they prefered the atmosphere. Since I registered here, I've met in person something like 30 members, and not had a problem with anybody, in fact the majority have become firm friends.
My big crime appears to be showing a bit of impatience (and I was not insinuating that the question was 'stupid') for which I'd already apologised for and was settled.
In comparison to that, you've posted personal attacks on both myself and Thadrin, switched to a different language in a total display of ignorance and posted the contents of a private message publically. Maybe you need to take a look at your own behaviour before you're so ready to criticise.
Personal attacks are not tolerated on most boards (in fact if you'd posted what you posted today on a GW forum, you would have had your membership terminated and every post you'd ever made wiped, no question at all). It's only because of the tolerance we're showing you that you've been allowed to get away with what you have. Is that heavy handed 'Baron' behaviour?
I'm sure people can draw their own conclusions from your posts, but believe me, outside of your little bubble of paranoia, you're not coming across very well.
Ah well, guess that's about it, just wanna remind you of the explanation of moderators for this site:

What are Moderators?
Moderators are individuals (or groups of individuals) whose job it is to look after the running of the forums from day to day. They have the power to edit or delete posts and lock, unlock, move, delete and split topics in the forum they moderate. Generally moderators are there to prevent people going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material.

Note the bold! If it was anybody other than myself or Thadrin you were abusing, your posts would have been deleted without question. However, we've been around long enough and most people know us well enough that it doesn't really matter what aspersions you choose to cast.
Take care now,
-Woody

... just because you and some of your fellow moderators agree with you - doesn´t make you right....
I´ve posted proof that you have abused your position, and proof that I´m not the only one who thinks that the term "moderator-baron" is so far away...

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:18 pm

Nagash, I think you are well out of line here.

I not a "baron", hell, I'm not even a fanatical BB player, but I've enjoyed the time I spent on this board, as you can see by the times I've posted here.

I've also pi**ed off a couple of people, but I've apologised and it was all settled, we even made a joke of it in other threads.

If you don't like the way the site is run, fine, leave and start you own. I've never had a problem with the moderators, but if I did I'm sure we could sort it out like adults, rather thn children, which, IMO, is how you seem to be acting.

Nagash · Post by **Nagash** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:23 pm

Darkson wrote:Nagash, I think you are well out of line here.

I not a "baron", hell, I'm not even a fanatical BB player, but I've enjoyed the time I spent on this board, as you can see by the times I've posted here.

I've also pi**ed off a couple of people, but I've apologised and it was all settled, we even made a joke of it in other threads.

If you don't like the way the site is run, fine, leave and start you own. I've never had a problem with the moderators, but if I did I'm sure we could sort it out like adults, rather thn children, which, IMO, is how you seem to be acting.

Its not like I´ve even mentioned your name in this discussion is it? But if you wanna get personal with me fine - in the above post Deathwing has just promised that anyone making personal attacks will be close to be terminated... but as we all know that won´t happen to you - will it?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:36 pm

I would reply to that in a PM but it'll just be posted here so I won't bother.

No, you hadn't named me, but that didn't seem to stop jumping to Hokekims (sorry if I've spelt that wrong) defence.

Also, why would it "not happen to me"? I not related/known to the moderators except through this board, and the Spiky turnament were I briefly met DW. So I've as much chance of being locked out as anyone.

Please, just drop it. You've made you feeling clear, as have others. If the moderators want to alienate newbies that's their business, their be the ones to suffer in the long run, but I don't think they are.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:48 pm

Sorry if I'm being out of line here.