Forced to catch the ball

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:15 pm

Another good point Sputnik, has anyone actually come across a reason why there should be forced catches, I know there is debate on the forced pick up at the moement, but I don't recall a good reason for a forced catch?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 7:58 pm

I'm with Sputnik on this one. I also don't think it should be a touchback if a player fails his catch roll and it scatters off the field.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 8:30 pm

That one's easy. Straight simplicity. If the ball doesn't come to rest in your opponents half then it's a TB.
If you want to start adding "..unless blahblahblah.." then house rule it.
Personally, I don't see why you should you be rewarded if the ball happens to come down on my Mummy/Saurus/BOB on the LOS. Did you aim it there? Is that fair risk/reward? Personally, I think not.
Now if you were to drop the 'must' catch rule, then you may have a better case, but it's still adding unnecessary complexity IMO for no good reason. As I said, one to house rule.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 8:17 am

No, I didn't intend to kick the ball there. It just happened!

Twice in one season so far. So this situation can be reproduced!!!! And no, I didn't have a kicker to force it.

Deathwing wrote:

Personally, I don't see why you should you be rewarded if the ball happens to come down on my Mummy/Saurus/BOB on the LOS

Why should I want to kick the ball to your one-turner or to your thrower in the backfield?? I would rather like to see the ball in an area of the field where my opponent has to secure the ball in the first place or might cause a turnover because of cursed dice before starting to beat me up!

He should feel the pressure right from the kickoff.

Deathwing wrote:

but it's still adding unnecessary complexity IMO for no good reason

I know I will now mix catches and pick ups and the thread is about forced catches only but if I am not mistaken, you can throw the ball accurately to one of your players and if this player does not catch the ball, it will scatter. If one of your other players catches this scattered ball before it touches the ground it is not a turnover and you may continue your turn. BUT if you try to pick up the ball and fail, it is a turnover even if another of your players 'catches' this scattering ball before it hits the ground again.

IMO not really straight forward rules and adding complexity for no good reason.

However, my reason for posting this kickoff scenario was that I think that scenario is a good example where coaches might not want to be forced to catch the ball at all. Why should a coach 'be rewarded' with a lucky dice roll to end up with the ball in the hands of a blckorc at the line of scrimmage, facing an ogre with stand firm??

So I like to see rules for voluntary catches and not be forced to do so.

By the way, Deathwing, we indeed houseruled that kickoff scenario. Null problemo there. That's what house rules are for.

Sputnik

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 1:41 pm

Sputnik wrote: I know I will now mix catches and pick ups and the thread is about forced catches only but if I am not mistaken, you can throw the ball accurately to one of your players and if this player does not catch the ball, it will scatter. If one of your other players catches this scattered ball before it touches the ground it is not a turnover and you may continue your turn. BUT if you try to pick up the ball and fail, it is a turnover even if another of your players 'catches' this scattering ball before it hits the ground again.

Sputnik

Sputnik, I think we're pretty much in agreement. The above point that pick-ups and catches are entirely different things with different rules/skills applying is precisely my whole point: i.e. that forced pick-ups were brought in specifically to prevent rucking tactics, and the only reason for forced catches that I've been able to ascertain is 'consistancy', when there's no grounds that I can see for it.

As to your house rule, I'd be tempted to take Kick and kick short behind the los, particularly with fast stunty players like Skinks. I suppose the obvious drawback is the limiited access to General skills that lizards have.
Still, worth having a look at Mestari's program and considering the tactic.
Maybe not every KO, but there's definately situations where it could be useful.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:27 pm

Deathwing wrote:

As to your house rule, I'd be tempted to take Kick and kick short behind the los, particularly with fast stunty players like Skinks. I suppose the obvious drawback is the limiited access to General skills that lizards have

Yes, sometimes this tactics can help. But if the ball comes down short behind the LOS, it may also be easier for the opponent to get his player of choice to pick up the ball and moreover enough players around to protect it. Then speed is no more an advantage. So in the end it depends on the opposing team (doesn't it ALWAYS depend on the opposing team??

)

I so far only played around a bit with Mestari's program but you just made me taking some more serious looks at it this weekend. Thnx!

Sputnik

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 6:42 am

BTW....
I ve look again the end of the final between SputniK and Marcus.
The Ball carrier was down and the ball was scaterring everywhere.And each coach (Marcus and Sputnik) have tryed to catch it once or twice without success...No turnover was called..is it normal? Sputnik should have a turnover on trying and failing the catch of the boucing ball, no?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:22 am

No failing to catch a bouncing ball isn't a turnover, go read the rulebook! If someone on the moving team doesn't catch a pass then its a turnover.

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 8:55 pm

Longshot wrote

I ve look again the end of the final between SputniK and Marcus.
The Ball carrier was down and the ball was scaterring everywhere.And each coach (Marcus and Sputnik) have tryed to catch it once or twice without success...No turnover was called..is it normal? Sputnik should have a turnover on trying and failing the catch of the boucing ball, no?

You could say I knocked the ball loose from that rat stealing it from me.

Then it scattered around the house a bit in the same turn indeed...

but because it was a scattering ball knocked loose no turnover occured.

Since all house rocking participants were unsure where the ball would go, all tried to get their hands on it until Sotek overruled and sorted it out...what a fortune for my little Blacky (with his second try next turn)

Sputnik

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 6:24 am

Grumbledook wrote:No failing to catch a bouncing ball isn't a turnover, go read the rulebook! If someone on the moving team doesn't catch a pass then its a turnover.

==>So in my example, if i ve didnt succeed in catchging the ball (it was a bouncing ball!!) it wouldnt have been a turnover??So changes everything.
My opponent told me that a TO would occur!
arf, i hate those little nasty rules.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 10:57 am

Uh huh, it wasn't a turnover, that will learn yer! To be honest longshot I am surprised you didn't know this already.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:15 am

I'm gonna bounce this, over two years on and we're still playing with forced catches. Anybody like to tell me why?

Hell, I'm gonna start a poll...

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:52 am

Hi Deathwing and all.
I just like the consistency:
You have to catch, just like you have to pick up.
In both cases it happens that you'd rather ignore the ball, but that's just the way it goes.
Part of the game, IMO.

Cheers
Martin

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:10 pm

The worst moment in the history of forced catches:

Down 2-1, my Orcs have a chance to attempt a last second throw teammate to try for the tie. We've got a catch goblin, a pair of throwers, and two 4 agility players on the team. Shouldn't be too hard to do, right? Not so fast. The ball scatters to the Troll, who catches it. Can't hand off and throw in the same turn.

On a more humorous side note, I'm thinking of trying a new tactic on defence. If I get the ball and can't score, try throwing it to an opponent's big guy. Say it's the last turn of the game, and you can't clear the ball out of your side to prevent the other team from scoring. Just hand it to their Wild Animal! You just know he won't be able to get it in scoring position.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:32 pm

Skummy wrote:Can't hand off and throw in the same turn.

Huh? Sure you can. Just not with the same player. Troll hands off to a thrower (after testing for RS), thrower tosses ball down pitch ... gobbo catches and walks in for the TD ... what's the problem?