Tournament competition suggestions

[grotuk]

Stadiums are difficult to bring from outside UK... But why not

We always can judge them in base of a pictures set...

[Pipey]

I think the only way it can work is if the WC is based around a large individual tournament in which everyone competes. Everybody must feel they are part of it.

We have opened this up to the wider public in White Dwarf. Any kind of captain-selected system means only those who are active on TBB or who already play on the NAF tournie circuit are eligible.

[Hangus]

I think the only way it can work is if the WC is based around a large individual tournament in which everyone competes. Everybody must feel they are part of it.

We have opened this up to the wider public in White Dwarf. Any kind of captain-selected system means only those who are active on TBB or who already play on the NAF tournie circuit are eligible.

If they kept the team and individual separate so coaches could possibly play in both and both given the same prestige would that help?

[Mordredd]

But you'll still have the problem that you still have an exclusive event that it is impossible for most people to get into, and with a selection criteria that most of them won't even know anything about. As long as you have an exclusive event it will be seen as the elite event regardless of whether or not these 'best national coaches' take part in the other one as well. And just telling people that both events are equally prestigious is unlikely to make them believe it either.

[Rab]

Absolutely, Mordredd.

(I might as well bang my drum over this issue on this thread as well as everywhere else )

[Hangus]

But you'll still have the problem that you still have an exclusive event that it is impossible for most people to get into, and with a selection criteria that most of them won't even know anything about. As long as you have an exclusive event it will be seen as the elite event regardless of whether or not these 'best national coaches' take part in the other one as well. And just telling people that both events are equally prestigious is unlikely to make them believe it either.

i don't mean to start an arguement (which i seem to be doing a lot recently )

But

if you don't have the team event you just have a BloodBowl with a couple of Dungeon bowl or whatever games thrown in. That to me is not special and is not a world cup.

If you have, say for example, Indigo win the indiviual event with Holland winning the whole 8 best other races combined thing or whatever the idea is. Does that say to you England won the World cup or Holland, which would have the most prestige? I would say the individual winner.

I admit its not as bad as some of the other ideas floatinga around and you have made a very good point Hans that need to be taken into consideration.

[Pipey]

But you'll still have the problem that you still have an exclusive event that it is impossible for most people to get into, and with a selection criteria that most of them won't even know anything about. As long as you have an exclusive event it will be seen as the elite event regardless of whether or not these 'best national coaches' take part in the other one as well. And just telling people that both events are equally prestigious is unlikely to make them believe it either.

I agree. That's why I think it needs to be based around one core individual event in which everyone competes.

Perhaps some kind of team average, or an average of the top performing coaches from each nation could be used to decide the winners.

That way it's objective. Everyone has the chance to make a contribution on behalf of their nation making it inclusive rather than exclusive.

[Darkson]

I agree. That's why I think it needs to be based around one core individual event in which everyone competes.

Perhaps some kind of team average, or an average of the top performing coaches from each nation could be used.

I'm in agreememnt, but perhaps with some game variation in amonst the 9 games.

As an example (off the top of my head)

6 games of "regular" BB (TR whatever)
2 games of Streetbowl (with the streetbowl roster having to come from your normal roster, perhaps making linemen more attractive for some races [ORCS!])
1 game of Deathbowl/Dungeonbowl/something different
1 game of "regular" - Final(s), Wooden Spoon, final placings.

[Hangus]

I'm in agreememnt, but perhaps with some game variation in amonst the 9 games.

As an example (off the top of my head)

6 games of "regular" BB (TR whatever)
2 games of Streetbowl (with the streetbowl roster having to come from your normal roster, perhaps making linemen more attractive for some races [ORCS!])
1 game of Deathbowl/Dungeonbowl/something different
1 game of "regular" - Final(s), Wooden Spoon, final placings.

nice i like this more than an individual tourney with a couple of gimic/specialist games added on but you may have people who do not like Streetbrawl or Dungeon bowl or whatever variation or maybe they just want to take part in the Streetbrawl bit only which may screw up the rankings and stuff.

You could vary the TR so 3 TR100 and 3 TR110.

Plus as i found out at my own peril that dungeonbowl can be a case of one coach getting two of the other coaches to gang up on the other player while he wins the game. so a one off game can be a little unfair.

why can't it be the player can take part in whatever event he wants and that contributes towards his countries score or medal count?

[Darkson]

Thinking a little more while cooking tea for the kids, and perhaps 5 games of regular BB, allowing time for 4 games of SB, which would count towards the overall ranking, but could also have an individual SB champion.
Then if people don't want to play SB, they could either be counted as not playing (so no points), or could play 2 more rounds of regular (counts, but not as much as 4 games would).

Again, all off the top of my head.

[Indigo]

6 games of "regular" BB (TR whatever)
2 games of Streetbowl (with the streetbowl roster having to come from your normal roster, perhaps making linemen more attractive for some races [ORCS!])
1 game of Deathbowl/Dungeonbowl/something different
1 game of "regular" - Final(s), Wooden Spoon, final placings.

Trouble with that is most of those games may not be NAF ranked. For example, having never played Streetbowl or Deathbowl or Dungeonbowl I wouldn't want them NAF ranked and since they aren't "proper" Blood Bowl games can they be ranked? I think not.

I too think an all inclusive tourney is the best way, but there are a lot of people who think that a team event is the only way it can be a "true" world cup (bollocks IMO).

[boondog]

Indigo, I think that the idea of a "demon-style" painting competition is just great. I really like it.

I'd also like to agree with Loony Toadquack and support the idea of a big, big tourney where everyone participating is, in some way, part of the "big picture".

Now, I had an idea (I'm sure it's been suggested before; please bear with me, I'm late to join this whole discussion.)

How about an "Olympic" approach to the whole thing? There are 21 official BB races to choose from. What about considering each of those as a kind of "Olympic games event"?
In that way, there could be just one massive "swiss-style" tourney. After the last round, the best player for each race could be determined, thus "winning Olympic gold" for the nation he represents. The final tally of all the "gold medals" won by each nation would provide a nation-against-nation competition, just like in the Olympics. The overall top 5 (or whatever) players could also win additional points for their respective nations to help determine an overall winning nation.
More popular or "competitive" races (Undead, Dwarfs etc.) would be more prestigious (Like the 100 meter dash), while other teams (Halflings, Vampires etc.) would compare to events like rafting, skeet-shooting, teabag-tossing or whatever other events the modern Olympic games include.
That way, players would not only support their nation but also represent their chosen race. If you play, e.g., Skaven, you're competing to be the theoretical "Best Skaven there is"; affiliation would be to chosen race first and to nation second.
No teams would have to be selected or nominated and the system would provide a competitive atmosphere for everybody. Coaches who are confident in their abilities would go for a "prestigious" race, while those just in for the fun of it would still have something to go for even if they turn up with an "underdog" team.
Also, the last round could forego the original swiss system and just pit the different players of each race against each other...

Just a thought. I certainly don't want to attack any of the ideas and theories already put forward.

[Hangus]

I agree. That's why I think it needs to be based around one core individual event in which everyone competes.

Perhaps some kind of team average, or an average of the top performing coaches from each nation could be used to decide the winners.

That way it's objective. Everyone has the chance to make a contribution on behalf of their nation making it inclusive rather than exclusive.

you see i read "one core individual event" and see the BloodBowl which is held every year at Nottingham in which every one plays in. That does not interest me. Maybe making each nationality an average for each race or a selection of races is better but still not something special.

Ok maybe national teams are not going to work and just save them from eurobowl. But why not have a team event where everyone can join in. You could have six americans team up with one fenchman and a Scot. I like the idea of making it like the Olympics. Give the first place team a gold medal each and it counts towards the final tally. You could even hand out points for placings. Just an idea.

But i do feel very strongly that a player should be able to choose what he/she wants to play. Darksons idea is in the right area, but maybe I want to play in the individual event and the Dungeonbowl event and have a bit more spare time to chat with other coaches.

I would like to see lots of winners (the different games going on) and one big winner (the world cup winner as in country)

[Longshot]

i dont want a BB tourny style only
i dont want a Eurobowl (+3/4 countries more) tourny style only
i dont want speical tourny (beach, street..) tournies style only
i dont want a Painting contest only.

I want all that. mixed or not but all of this.
And even if i am not in all competition , i can t see how i can't feel being a part of it...

[Pipey]

It seems to me that the crucial difficulty of the WC is in meeting these two aims together:

1. Determining which nation is the best at BB in the world
2. Inviting new members into the BB community and promoting NAF

A third aim is to celebrate the game in all its forms including painting, fun variants etc. I think this is less of a problem and could be incorporated more easily than the other two.

Been thinking about all these things a fair bit lately have come up with this system based around the idea of one central individual tournament? (many similarities to what I have discussed with Lucifer over the phone - not trying to nick your ideas mate )

Friday:
Three swiss individual tournament matches (no race restrictions)

Saturday:
A day to play all the variants (Streetbowl, Dungeonbowl, BB 7s etc.) including painting. Will have a kind of 'Games Day' feel.

Sunday:
Continuation of Friday - three more swiss drawn matches.

Each entrant would be required to fill in and return a reply slip attached to his ticket stating, along with his chosen race etc., the nation he would like to represent.

Trophies would be provided as usual for the winners of the 6-game individual tournament but in addition a national average would be derived for each country. Only the top placed players' scores would count (e.g. the top 6 - depending on how small the smallest nation is).

Winners of each of the fun events on Saturday would also get trophies. Not sure whether points should be scored here counting towards overall WC winners, but perhaps they could contribute a small percentage. It should be borne in mind that many entrants will probably have never played any of the variants or even heard of them!

This structure keeps things reasonably simple which I believe is crucial (agree absolutely with Longshot). You effectively have the fun stuff sandwiched between the competitive stuff. Sort of light relief. 9 highly competitive games on the spin will be too intense for a lot of people I think.

This should be a way of determining who is the strongest nation, and would hopefully bring new people into NAF commnuity making them feel involved.


I admit there are one or two problems...

1. Teams with the most number of coaches attending be seen as having an unfair advantage.

2. Coaches representing the same nation may well be drawn against eachother (particularly likely for UK teams) and there could in theory be allegations of coaches throwing games (perhaps unlikely given NAF rankings etc. at stake but it has to be considered as a possibility)

...but it's difficult to imagine a perfect system fulfilling everything we want a World Cup to be...