SPP for throwing.

[Darkson]

Just so I'm totally clear that I've got this right:-

A pass which is Accurate (ie I pass my Pass roll) which is dropped by the intended receiver but caught by a teammate is worth 1SPP?

A pass which is inaccurate (ie I fail my pass roll), wheter caught by the intended receiver or a teammate is worth no SPP?


Is this correct, or am I reading the word "accurate" in the SPP section to literally?

[Grumbledook]

Yes thats exactly correct you get 1 SPP for throwing an accurate pass which is caught by a team mate.

[Munkey]

We've always played that you get the SPPs if the pass is caught by a member of your team... but I admit thats not how it's worded in the rules... Whoops

[Darkson]

Don't worry Munkey, you weren't the only one. I only caught it (no pun intended) wen re-reading the skills and SPP section.

It seems to be one of those rules thats inadvently overlooked when reading that section.

[Starfish]

dunno where we got this from but my local group has always played that when a pass is caught both the player who made the pass and the player who catches the pass recieve 1 SPP each.

Is this wrong?

[Deathwing]

dunno where we got this from but my local group has always played that when a pass is caught both the player who made the pass and the player who catches the pass recieve 1 SPP each.

Is this wrong?

Yep, Darkson's original post on this thread is correct.

[DoubleSkulls]

dunno where we got this from but my local group has always played that when a pass is caught both the player who made the pass and the player who catches the pass recieve 1 SPP each.

Is this wrong?

Yes. Only the thrower gets the SPP.

[Darkson]

Yep, Darkson's original post on this thread is correct.

Blimey, another one right.

Pass me the smelling salts, vicar.

[JackDragna]

A thrower doesn't get any SPP's if an accurate pass is dropped by one player and caught by another on the moving team. The second player isn't catching an accurate pass: he's picking up a scattering ball from a teammate.

[Darkson]

Yes, he does.

• From LRB (emphasise mine):-
  "A player who makes an ACCURATE pass that is caught by another player earns 1SPP. An accurate pass is called a 'completion' or complete pass. Note the ball must be caught by a player from the same team, otherwise it is not complete!"

So as long as the thrower throws an accurate pass (IE passes the pass roll) and the ball is caught by a team-mate he gains 1SPP. This is even true if the catcher is on the sideline, drops the catch with scatters out-of-bounds, the crowd throw in and the ball lands in a square containing a team-mate who catches the ball (phew!). It might seem strange but you can look at it that the thrower has done his job (trown accurate for a +1 modifier) and it's up to his team-mates to do theirs, andhe doesn't care who catches it.

[JackDragna]

It says the player needs to make an accurate pass that is caught by a member of the moving team. When the ball is dropped by a player, the 'accurate pass' part of the player is over. It's now a scattering ball, not a pass.

[DoubleSkulls]

A thrower doesn't get any SPP's if an accurate pass is dropped by one player and caught by another on the moving team. The second player isn't catching an accurate pass: he's picking up a scattering ball from a teammate.

Yes he does. So long as the pass is accurate and a team mate catches it, its a completion.

[Korhil]

For purposes of getting the SPP I've always read it to mean the pass must be Accurately passed to a player and caught by the player it was accurately passed to on the catch roll.

Reading the LRB it would indicate that anyone can catch it tho.
Did this make the Rules clarification or not?
It is slightly ambigious.

---Korhil

[Mestari]

Although JackDragna certainly is in the minority here with his interpretation, I would consider it to be an equally correct interpretation of the rules. It all goes back to the "must-may"-kind of debate - both interpretations could be correct, so ask the Rules Gurus to fix it in the next rules review so that there is no ambiguity.

I prefer the version (I am aware that it is not in the rules) where a completion is awarded for any pass caught by one of your players. Fumble, naturally, is not a pass.

[GalakStarscraper]

For purposes of getting the SPP I've always read it to mean the pass must be Accurately passed to a player and caught by the player it was accurately passed to on the catch roll.

Reading the LRB it would indicate that anyone can catch it tho.
Did this make the Rules clarification or not?
It is slightly ambigious.

---Korhil

Actually this one is only ambigous if you read to much into it.

Code: Select all

Completions  (COMP):  A player  who  makes  an
accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1
Star  Player  point.  An  accurate  pass  is  called  a
‘completion’ or complete pass. Note that the ball must
be caught by a player from the same team, otherwise
it is not complete!

1 SPP for a completion has three components:

1) Was the Pass Accurate when thrown?
2) When the ball comes to rest is it in the hands of one of your players? (ie was it caught in some manner)
3) Is that player someone other than the thrower?

If you answer Yes to all 3 its gives the Thrower 1 SPP.

It says the player needs to make an accurate pass that is caught by a member of the moving team. When the ball is dropped by a player, the 'accurate pass' part of the player is over. It's now a scattering ball, not a pass.

The problem is you twisted the wording to do your point. The rules are:
"A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player"
NOT
"A player catches an accurate pass that is thrown by another player"

JD for you interpretation to be correct the test for accuracy would need to be done at the time of the catch, like the 2nd line reads ... the line in the LRB clearly does the test at front in not the back end. Being a programmer helps with this type of stuff, because you see the rules as IF...THEN statements.

===========================================

If the following above logic doesn't show that its pretty clear ... let's try Plan B:

p.8 LRB

Code: Select all

TURNOVERS
Normally, a team turn only ends when all of the players
in the team have performed an action. However, certain
events cause the team turn to end before all of the
players have taken an action.These events are called
turnovers. The following events cause a turnover:

   3.    The ball is passed and not caught by a
        player from the moving team or

p.14 LRB

Code: Select all

TURNOVERS
If the ball isn’t caught by a player from the moving
team, a turnover takes place and the moving team’s
turn ends. The turnover does not take place until the
ball finally comes to rest. This means that if the ball
misses the target but is still caught by a player from
the moving team, then a turnover does not take place.
The ball could even scatter out of bounds, be thrown
back into an empty square, and as long as it was
caught by a player from the moving team then the
turnover would be avoided!

NOW go back to the definition of a completion:

Code: Select all

A player  who  makes  an accurate pass that is caught by another player 

So the JD's argument here is that if the original player doesn't "catch" the ball its become a scattered ball correct? HOWEVER, the rules for turnovers use the exact wording as the rules for getting a completion (the completion text just has extras for accurate and other player). .... so that brings us to the question of what counts as "catching" the ball. Page 14 lists in detail what counts for catching the ball and clearly a ball that becomes bouncing is still considered "caught" if it ends up with a player from your team.

So going back to the completion text ....
A player who makes an accurate pass
This is satistified by the Passing roll before the Catch roll is even made.
that is caught by another player
Looking at the rules for turnovers from passing on pages 8 and 14, we can 100% conclude to qualify for this the ball only needs to end up in the hands of a player from your team other than the thrower to qualify as "caught" and thus earn the 1 SPP for the thrower.

Hopefully one of these 2 arguments will show that its not unclear at all. Now you can argue that its not logically .... I won't necessarily disagree .. but those are the rules and I know 100% this is the way the rules are meant to work from discussion of this topic over the years.

Galak