Death to all Elves!!

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:45 am

Elves aren't dominating either of the MBBL competitions either. In Season 1 of the MBBL there were six elf teams, and they finished 9th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 24th, and 28th out of 30 coaches. (Yep, that's me in 28th position.

)

Are you sure that elves don't actually need a helping hand?

Cheers,
Martyn

Pallino · Post by **Pallino** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:46 am

Elves? No problem...
Take a good team of Dwarf and destroy them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After some turns you can have 1 (!) Elf in and 10 (!) Elves out!
So you can make td without problem

And when they are down... give a kick

Dirty Player is a good thing.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:56 am

Marcus wrote:T5 tournament:

1st place: Undead
2nd place: Dwarves
3rd place: Undead

Spiky tournament:

1st place: Lizardmen
2nd place: Skaven
3rd place: Humans

Resurrection tournament:

1st place: Lizardmen
2nd place: Dwarves
3rd place: Skaven

I'm not seeing a whole lot of call for weakening elves.

Some of these tournament count casualties in the ranking. Which is not perfect cos if I make 7 casualities to a high elf team and they beat me 2-1. they will win the match, even if I got more points (17vs11).
The important for me, is winning the match not earning tournament points.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:59 am

there is a max 3 cas and 3 for td for spiky
i missed out on the semi finals because i hadn't scored as many touchdowns and because i wasn't fouling (i'm nice) i didn't get enough casualties, one more meant i was in the semis instead of marcus if i am correct. At the end of the day getting points for casualties is no use if you lost the game, more points are gained for winning than anything else.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 12:12 pm

Trambi wrote:Some of these tournament count casualties in the ranking. Which is not perfect cos if I make 7 casualities to a high elf team and they beat me 2-1. they will win the match, even if I got more points (17vs11).
The important for me, is winning the match not earning tournament points.

Yet if you increase the number of casualties inflicted on an elf team....

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:11 pm

I suppose the AV could stay the same as it is now, but the roll for stunned and higher roll for ko's would help even things out a bit. Remember this doesn't increas CAS, just keeps some players off the field or out of plays a little longer.

One more thing, I really think that WE wardancers are waaay too overdone. Just let them start with block like other blitzers, hell just call them blitzers and don't worry about the corrilation with WFB. No one should be able to START with blodge combo it's tooo

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:18 pm

Torg, I'm afraid I see no evidence that elves are dominating the game. Yes, they are good, but no better than dwarves, lizardmen, orcs, amazons, undead, chaos, humans, etc., in the hands of a coach who knows what he is doing.

(I do agree with your point about the wardancer though, but he's only got AV7. The very first time you manage to get him down, foul him!)

Cheers,
Martyn

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:29 pm

War dancers are a real pain in the

but the rest of the WE team is too squishy to survive long and they are almost bound to enter at least one big negative cycle - one bad game -> too few players -> other bad game -> too few players.

Any team that relies too much on one or two players isn't going to have much fun when they get taken out.

This in my mind makes WE's the weakest of the Elven teams (for league play at least).

Ian

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:39 pm

elves already have sufficient handicapping in place, it's called a 70k unskilled lineman... probably the most overwhelming limitation any team in the game starts with...

i never understood the design philosophy of 3e elves either, but there's nothing wrong with them from a numbers standpoint... sure, they don't "feel" right, but that's what woodies are for... i've known several coaches over the years who didn't like the "feel" of their dark elf or high elf team and used those minis with a wood elf roster instead to get what they were looking for... minis and fluff are one thing, game mechanics are another...

Thor · Post by **Thor** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:08 pm

Elves? Over-powered?

If elves were advantaged so much over other teams, everyone would coach elves and they would always dominate games, leagues and tournaments. But I don't see this happening.

I agree that WE Wardancers are valuable players, but they are are also expensive.

I think the elf teams are balanced just fine the way they are now and don't think adjustments need to be made to AV, injury, KO or Stunned rolls.

Mr. Sanity · Post by **Mr. Sanity** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:01 pm

People that think elves need further handicapping need to lay off that military-grade crack. With the way people are complaining about them, you'd think they were the Vampire team or some equally pathetic joke. If you hobble the elves, what next? Skaven (they're too fast! it's unfair!)? Dwarves (they get too many skills! fie!)? Undead (regenerate is so unfair!)?

Elves have a good passing game, and Woodies have a fairly good running game (but I think Skaven still have them beat in that department). However, the limitations they face (incredible cost, Woodies are fastish but squishy) keep them in line with other races. If you're getting consistently beaten by elves, then you need to stop playing like an elf, and smash them up a bit before scoring your points. Elves have some well-known vulnerabilities that can be exploited. Smash them up good, and they're going to be short players until they can scrape up the money to replace players. Many (most) teams can beat them in the strength department, and should capitalize on that fact at every opportunity.

Overall, it takes a lot of skilled coaching to bring elves to the finals (much like any other team), and choosing elves as one's team is no guarantee of doing well.

{edit: spelling/grammar}

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:19 pm

Torg wrote:No one should be able to START with blodge combo it's tooo

Amazon blitzers start with a blodge combo,so should they be cut down too?
Jeese the only good thing with woodies are the dancers, but most coaches know how too deal with them, put them on the deck and foul them out

,
All elves have the potential too do well under a reasonable coach but I dont see this as a reason for them to be penalised with injuries or taking longer too recover(just because it was in 2nd ed),Also in 2nd ed Dark Elves were affected by sunny weather,so would you want to see this happen again?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:25 pm

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:28 pm

Torg wrote:YES!

Well you can always go back and play 2nd edition then

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:28 pm

Ive never played as elves but the concept to me sucks.