Using the "correct" minis

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:14 pm

Sometimes, this board sounds like another one... Really boring. The only problem with painting for me is when a coach who should be maybe better in a tournament would come in 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th

place only because he has a worse painting evaluaiton job than the 1st .

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:49 am

Hey Zombie,
Starcraft can be played on a table top. It's called Shockforce, or Settlers of Cattan, Blood Royal, or about a dozen other games.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Starcraft was not very original. None of the computer RTS are.

vorner23 · Post by **vorner23** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 4:11 am

Incidentally I've just finished painting an ogre! How'd you know Deathwing?!?

Its got to be the best darn mini I've ever painted, I'm well proud of it. I've been painting awhile, and tend to do so in waves. (Painters you know what I'm on about.)

Now somewhat strangely I feel really accomplished and ready for the Spiky Cup tournament. Yet my ogres stats are exactly the same.... how strange. Must have something to do with pai..... nah it can't be.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:55 am

Joshua Dyal wrote:Don't be so dramatic -- league commish means making decisions about how the league plays. It also is an increase in workload that I'm not going to take on for a league that I don't really enjoy playing in. If I can't even add an optional rule to encourage painting without an outcry from a bunch of guys who aren't even considering playing in my league, then forget it! The game is about having fun. If having painted minis increases my fun significantly, who are you to tell me I'm wrong? I'm sorry you and Darkson and Zombie won't play in my league, but since you wouldn't anyway considering our geographic locations, I feel like that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Sorry, did you say league commish, or league dictator?

If you're going to make rules for your league that increase your enjoyment you'll end up with a league of one or a league of clones. Commishing (is that a word?) is all about give and take. If every other coach wanted a rule brought in and you didn't because "it didn't increase my fun", would you veto the rule? Not very condusive to a long-term league. "I don't like "big hat" Chaos Dwarfs as I really dislike the models, and seeing them on the table decrease my fun, so if you want to play them you can, but their all -1ST and -1AG" - extreme example I know, but if you're ruling league rules on fun whats to stop you?

Like I said, non-gaming encouragement fine, but handicapping players who can't/don't/won't paint is not fair.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:44 am

Zombie wrote:Oh and one other thing, i don't like people quoting stuff from me without permission. If it's possible, could you edit it out next time, or at least talk to me about it first?

Quick note here ... legally everything said here is public domain, the same is true for email correspondence. Quoting something you say doesn't require your permission or even telling you it was done. If you had every actually taken the time to read the fanzine, you'd know that the column it appeared in is the fanzine's gossip column basically which is exactly the type of article which would quote the things that the author would never give permission to reprint anyway. If you are going to take the attack mode that you normally take with folks in your posts Zombie then expect it to have some consequences ... if you aren't gutsy enough to have your speech reprinted in other forum than don't say it in the first place since your permission is meaningless for such a circumstance.

I find it laughable that you have the nerve to tell this to TH when you won't read the fanzine because of a letter of the alphabet. You truely are one of a kind, Zombie ... (thank heaven for small favors)

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:03 pm

Oh and one on topic post ....

When a league is set up you have two choices really

1) Get the guys together and then come to some agree how to play.

2) As commish, set up the rules and see if anyone joins.

If I went to play in the TBBF, Lucien's league, or the Woodel league, I would have no problem taking penalties for having unpainted miniatures. I should know going in that those are the rules of the league.

So basically I don't see the issue with having rules for painted or "correct" miniatures. If everyone disagrees than JD won't have a league and he's learned his lesson about his area. I myself agree with DW ... painted figs improve my personal enjoyment of the game, and I would seek out a league that had rules to encourage this (its why both Ronald and I worked to add pictures to the PBeM tool ... painted fig even virtual ones help the visualization and enjoyment). For leagues, that don't have the budgets personally than fine play with whatever you have.

I don't think anyone should ever critize another coach for how he wants to run his league. Zombie and I are polar opposites on Blood Bowl (in the old BBC days we used to say that if Zombie, Pink Horror, Pariah, and I could agree on any one topic that it could be a sign of the apoclypse, but Zombie is a deterministic life view athesit so we couldn't even agree on that). HOWEVER, I would actually spend considerable effort to defend Zombie's league's rights to play Blood Bowl any way they wanted to. I personally feel that if the rules of your league work for you then play them Zombie would never play in any league I commished and vice versa, but that doesn't mean I don't think Zombie's league should change the way they play.

The same is true for Joshua's league, if he wants rules for correct minis or rewards for painting then I don't see the reason to disagree with what he is suggesting for his own league. A Commish's job IS part dictator, if it isn't then odds are he's not controlling his league.

Sorry, just saw too many posts with coaches who seems to think they know best how to tell someone how to run their league. I ALWAYS think that however a league is being run if it has active players then its being run correctly ... arguments of: "but you could get more players IF ..." don't work in real life because the changes you make to gain can just as easily alienate existing members. Jervis actively encourages house rules for Blood Bowl leagues for this very reason. I think anyone who would try to change another coach's league is just out of line ... if it doesn't work the league will disband and then you can mentally think "I knew it" ... but so many leagues survive despite public opinion otherwise, so that says something right there .... I seem to remember somewhere over a year ago reading the suggested slogan for my league the MBBL2 being: "Not as bad as the OLBBL" ... nuff said.

Galak

Joshua Dyal · Post by **Joshua Dyal** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:09 pm

As I said, Darkson, I couldn't care less about being fair to you since it's not even an option for you to participate in my league. As you implied (albeit someone rudely, I think, to infer that we'll all be clones) it likely will increase the chances that the league will be made of people who enjoy the same things about the game as I do. Guess what? That's exactly what I want. By doing so, it doesn't just increase my enjoyment, it increases it for everyone who plays with me.

Sorry to all that my goal isn't to be all inclusive here, but people who like other types of leagues are welcome to start their own. I might even enjoy playing in them from time to time. But if I run a league, you better believe it will be a league of the kind I enjoy, and I'll do my darnedest to populate the league with people who enjoy the same kind of game I do, because it makes it a better experience for all of us.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:14 pm

I second Galaks opinion.
Every league has the right to use any house rules they like. BOBBA is an example of an extremely house-rule-full league and it has every right to be so. Painted-fig rule goes to the same category. As a commissioner you can penalise anyone from pretty much anything! Be fair, though, or your coaches might leave you. Saying that unpainted figs are penalised is fair, as long as the coaches know that in advance.

Commissioner, should he choose to be a dictator, now in charge of every ruling of the league, has the right to form a league to his liking. Fair and strict will win the day there too. If he doesn't want to see unpainted figs in his league he has the right to say so. The coaches should know in advance what they're joining, so if they join there's really nothing to complain about - commissioners way, or the highway, I say.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:17 pm

One more thing about painted figs:

After I finished the conversions and the (below-average) paintjob on my dwarf team, it was so nice to play with them. It was really my team, each figure converted and painted by my own hands. When one of those nice-looking blitzers of mine scored, the feeling was much better than if the scorer would've been the metal-blob with a winged helmet that GW supplies.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:32 pm

I prefer to have a league encourage painting mini's but not to penalize not painting them. Its a matter of perspective. I dont personally agree with the official tournament rules that all mini's must be painted (what if i just bought something that gw just issued that day), but thems the rules. But a tournament isnt a league, if a league is adamant about painted mini's, i'll prolly just pass it by and do something else. If the south bend league had insisted on painted mini's i would not be in this forum because i never would have learned to enjoy bb. Being in charge (in other words the commish) should not be a case of my way or the highway, unless a company is paying u to be (i havent heard of a paid commish for a bb league yet).

Joshua Dyal · Post by **Joshua Dyal** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:44 pm

I agree Mestari, 100%. I'm not really trying to argue the virtues of having a hand-painted and converted team, but playing with my all conversion orc team, even down to the squig reroll counters and the head coach waving a green flag with plays in x's and o's all over it. I have more fun playing with this team than any other I've ever played with, much of which is a product of my many hours of labor over creating the miniatures.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:40 pm

Zombie wrote: I'd still like to know what was quoted from me though. Care to share it with me?

The quote (off the top of my head) was something along the lines of " Let's just call it soccer while we're here.."

And it was just a straight quote, no comment/context added..in fact it would have meant nothing to those that didn't follow the thread...

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:41 pm

Deathwing wrote:Zombie wrote:
At least i could still hold them in my hand, and the touch would send impulses to my brain, reminding me that i'm still alive. Playing on a computer just makes you feel like you're slowly dying.

Ah, now we're getting there...the touch, feel and simple pleasure of painted minis enchance the experience and make the whole game more 'alive' to us 'brainwashed' masses...

Way to quote me out of context. Why don't you show the sentence right before that part?

I couldn't care less if the playing pieces were funny looking cubes.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:45 pm

Pariah, i don't know about the other titles you named, but i play Settlers of Catan and like it very much. But it has nothing to do with Starcraft? What's you're obsession with Starcraft anyway? And why did you even bring it up? I'm not Toby you know...

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:51 pm

I know Galak that he doesn't legally have to ask me, but it's common courtesy to do so, and it's my right to expect people to be courteous, even if i can't make them.

And the Z is definitely not the reason i'm not reading that magazine. I didn't even know it was called that way less than a week ago.