Using the "correct" minis

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:04 pm

vorner23 wrote:Ok, properly lastly now! Zombie how about using a painting service if you hate painting yourself? (Not meant as an insult.) Seriously the game does look and thereby play better with painted minis. After all if you never have played with them how can you be sure?

I do have painted minis. I bought all my miniatures on eBay. Most unpainted, some partially painted, some badly painted and some painted to very high standards (i even bought 3 teams that were part of the studio league, human, orc and wood elf). I only bought them because i'm stupid enough to do it, and because i'm always looking for deals so i know i can sell them all back for the same price (and i've been meaning to sell all my extra copies for some time now). But other people either will find this approach too expensive (have you seen the price on painted minis on eBay?) or plain useless. And i support that opinion.

The game does look better with painted minis, but not enough to warrant making people buy their own and paint them. We're perfectly happy in our (big) little league with what we have, even if sometimes it's just unpainted plastic miniatures from the box.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:09 pm

Deathwing wrote:Are you trying for another House-Rulez quote?

Sorry, didn't get that. I don't read House-Rulez. Even the title turns me off.

Deathwing wrote:Incidently, why don't you guys just play using the pbem tool? Interface is good, it's configurable, and no need to worry about getting anything out at all. It's already set up, you can't roll the dice off the table, and you don't even have to use the player pics at all! :D

Two reasons. One, we feel that 3 hours is plenty long enough for a game. Two, we like to sit in front of each other while playing. Playing chess online is nothing like playing chess on a board, and it really doesn't matter what the board looks like.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:26 pm

Ok I agree I didn't want to oblige my BB opponent to have painted minis. But I enjoy more BB with painted minis.
Moreover painting is a very relaxing activity and a good way to personalize his team.

Blood Bowl is tactical/strategic games but there arein addition background, fun and social interaction.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:05 pm

Deathwing wrote:Incidently, why don't you guys just play using the pbem tool? Interface is good, it's configurable, and no need to worry about getting anything out at all. It's already set up, you can't roll the dice off the table, and you don't even have to use the player pics at all!

I prefer to play once a week in the crowded club room, trying to make myself heard over 7 other excited/depressed coaches, and swappping tales of good/bad fortune table to table.

I will play PBeM eventually, but it could never replace face-to-face gaming. Add to yes, replace, never.

I would expect a coach who plays with bottle tops to have different colour ones for the different positions though.

(Edited for my terrible English spelling. Stop sniggering, it's only my native language.)

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:08 pm

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:27 pm

And if we're playing with the correct figures only, you'd better get rid of those Shadowforge, Heresy, Phigs etc mini's. They're not correct GW mini's and it a GW game. Tut, Tut,Tut.

Joshua Dyal · Post by **Joshua Dyal** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:33 am

Darkson: by correct minis (in the thread title) I wasn't referring to using the official GW minis, I was referring to not using some kind of stand-in miniature, like a space marine or a little ceramic bunny or a chess piece. Technically, I don't use any "correct" minis because my entire team is converted from 40k and Warhammer minis, including custom reroll counters and all.

Actually, as a complement to this thread, I think I'll start another one. I'd like a good rule I could use as a league commish that encourages painted minis via positive reinforcement. I.e., no penalties to coaches who don't paint, but a modest bonus of some kind to those who do. I'm not quite sure what to use there.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:34 am

Zombie wrote:
Deathwing wrote:
Deathwing wrote:Incidently, why don't you guys just play using the pbem tool? Interface is good, it's configurable, and no need to worry about getting anything out at all. It's already set up, you can't roll the dice off the table, and you don't even have to use the player pics at all!
Two reasons. One, we feel that 3 hours is plenty long enough for a game. Two, we like to sit in front of each other while playing. Playing chess online is nothing like playing chess on a board, and it really doesn't matter what the board looks like.

OK, obviously I wasn't clear. I was suggesting playing on the same machine in the same room at the same time, using the tool without emailing turns. What I was getting at was the question of why bother to set up boards etc at all? Far easier to boot a PC than get out all the necessary gubbins for a tabletop game.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:58 am

Joshua Dyal wrote:Darkson: by correct minis (in the thread title) I wasn't referring to using the official GW minis, I was referring to not using some kind of stand-in miniature, like a space marine or a little ceramic bunny or a chess piece.

relax, it's just a joke, as indicated by winking smilie.

Joshua Dyal wrote:Actually, as a complement to this thread, I think I'll start another one. I'd like a good rule I could use as a league commish that encourages painted minis via positive reinforcement. I.e., no penalties to coaches who don't paint, but a modest bonus of some kind to those who do. I'm not quite sure what to use there.

As I said on another thread (Marcus's viewtopic.php?t=2621) a bonus to one set of coaches is a penalty to the other. It's just a case of which side you're viewing it from.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:02 am

Joshua Dyal wrote:Actually, as a complement to this thread, I think I'll start another one. I'd like a good rule I could use as a league commish that encourages painted minis via positive reinforcement. I.e., no penalties to coaches who don't paint, but a modest bonus of some kind to those who do. I'm not quite sure what to use there.

Stop kidding yourself, because those are the exact same thing. If you're not giving the bonus to those who don't paint, you're actually giving them a penalty.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:05 am

I agree with Zombie. Even if it's better and funnier to play with minis, you can't give bonus to painted teams owners.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:07 am

Deathwing wrote:OK, obviously I wasn't clear. I was suggesting playing on the same machine in the same room at the same time, using the tool without emailing turns. What I was getting at was the question of why bother to set up boards etc at all? Far easier to boot a PC than get out all the necessary gubbins for a tabletop game.

Again, the comparison with chess still holds. It's more fun to play against someone across a table, with the most cheap ass board, than to play against him on a computer, even if we're sitting on the same comp. There are many reasons. One is that it's better to sit in front of him rather than next to him, so you can see the expressions on his face, making human contact and interaction more prevalent. The other is that you lose the feel of moving your own pieces and touching them with your own hands.

Da Scum · Post by **Da Scum** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:24 am

He's got a point, it's more the thrill of playing against a living opponent that gets me. And yes GW has seemed to abandon us when it's been made clear several times, especially at the recent Games Day here in Canada (eh?) that there is an enourmous interest and following for what is a rather clever game. Is it essential to have the precise figure in the particular pose? Not really, but it does help the opponent, not to mention yourself as a coach if you can tell just who is who.

This seems to come down to a case-by-case basis. (I won't even go into the paint issue, may GW burn with Microsith for THAT decision.) If the league as a whole feels that painting is an issue than let that league decide it, as I'm sure that they can come down to a decision regarding that within their own ranks that is fair. And if a league decides that it isn't critical, well then it isn't. I admit a well painted team looks amazing to the field, and to me individually it adds to the game. But it shouldn't take away from the game itself. If both coaches, or a league in general, are fair about this "issue" then I fail to see the problem. The only crucial factor is "is the game fun?", well yes it is. And we've all felt that despite the fact that GW left us to the six-winds for a time there. Why punish a player for using a bit of imagination when making his team, or even playing? Sure the rules say something about GW, but why should that even be taken seriously?

Let each league make it's own decision that they feel comfortable with. Now let's hope the NAF is sharing in this "enlightened" viewpoint.

Hell, even the Chaos Marauders are an "Illegal Team" according to the most anal retentive rules interpretation.

Go figure.

Joshua Dyal · Post by **Joshua Dyal** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:20 am

Relatively speaking, yes, a bonus to one team is a penalty to another. In terms of the actual rules, though, it's not -- the unpainted team gets to use all the rules as written. The guy who paints his team, though, gets a modest bonus which is really just an incentive to paint something up.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:24 am

Joshua Dyal wrote:Relatively speaking, yes, a bonus to one team is a penalty to another. In terms of the actual rules, though, it's not -- the unpainted team gets to use all the rules as written. The guy who paints his team, though, gets a modest bonus which is really just an incentive to paint something up.

So you're still penalizing coaches with unpainted teams. it doesn't matter how you word it, if you give a bonus to one set, your penalizing the other.

Even if it is something small, like an Asst. Coach or a cheerleader, this can still ave a huge effect on the outcome.

I would try to find some non-rules related incentive (I don't know, money, mini's that sort of thing) for the best/most original painted team.