Half Orcs

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 1:17 am

I have read Tom's (Galak) article in House Rules Mag #3 on Half Orcs. They are a translation of the 1ed team into 3ed stats. Though this team may be interesting to try to play, not ever played 1ed I don't feel any kind of attactment to the 1ed team. I think a team of Half Orcs would be interesting to try, but I think they should be somewhere between humans and orcs. Stats should be similar to orcs but not as tough (partly human) and they should have the variety of a human team (ie have access to catchers). This is what I think would be a half orc team;

0-12 linemen 50K 5 3 3 8 None Gen
0-2 throwers 70K 5 3 3 8 Pass Gen Passing
0-2 catchers 80K 7 3 3 8 Catch Gen Agility
0-4 blitzers 80K 6 3 3 8 Block Gen Str
0-2 Half Orc Blockers 100K 5 4 2 8 None Gen Str
ReRolls 60K

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 12:19 pm

I will decline to comment on this one ... bias is very completely too great too be objective.

Galak

Lucien and I have lamented the fact via e-mail that so few folks get a rat about the game's history.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 12:28 pm

Torg wrote:0-12 linemen 50K 5 3 3 8 None Gen
0-2 throwers 70K 5 3 3 8 Pass Gen Passing
0-2 catchers 80K 7 3 3 8 Catch Gen Agility
0-4 blitzers 80K 6 3 3 8 Block Gen Str
0-2 Half Orc Blockers 100K 5 4 2 8 None Gen Str
ReRolls 60K

Your positions seem slightly overpriced -
40k linemen (as humans but -1MA)
60k throwers (no sure hands)
70k blitzers (-1Av over Orc)
80k blockers (+1 MA, -1Av over BOBs)

Most teams only have access to 3 positions so I'd be tempted to drop either the catchers or blockers. Or you could be more radical and drop the blitzers.

Ian

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 1:00 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:I will decline to comment on this one ... bias is very completely too great too be objective.

Galak

Lucien and I have lamented the fact via e-mail that so few folks get a rat about the game's history.

OK, first of all, I do give a rat's ass about the game history. All I said was that since I never played 1ed, it never had an influence on me. Don't get me wrong, I think that the 1ed team in your article would be interesting to try and play, but I wanted to show what came to my mind when I think of Half Orc team. I would like to see GW produce a HO team of some kind, but that's about as likely as the Slann team making a come-back.

Valen · Post by **Valen** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 1:42 pm

I would like to drop the Black Orc Blockers completly, and make it 0-4 Catchers and Blitzers.

I prefer the prices Ian suggested, although I would lower the price of the catcher to 70,000 (-1 MA, +1 ST, +1 AV, loss of Dodge = 0 net change).

I am not sure how this compares to the rules in HR 3 as I have not had time to read it yet.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 3:46 pm

Torg wrote: OK, first of all, I do give a rat's ass about the game history. All I said was that since I never played 1ed, it never had an influence on me. Don't get me wrong, I think that the 1ed team in your article would be interesting to try and play, but I wanted to show what came to my mind when I think of Half Orc team. I would like to see GW produce a HO team of some kind, but that's about as likely as the Slann team making a come-back.

Sorry Torg ... wasn't trying to be combative .... hmmm okay maybe I was this morning as I was on 5 hours of sleep after a plane trip to one of my rare onsite visits.

I guess my point was that when you look at the converted 1st edition Half-Orc team you are faced with the coaching issue of how to do win when you only have 2 AG 3 players. Every current team has double or more that number so its a very different style of team. The version you posted is basically a slow human team. I see both the Human and Orc roster as clearly superior to it ... this is my opinion only. I'm not sure why I would use this roster if the Human and Orc teams where available to me. The Half-Orc translated team is at least significantly different from other teams that it stands on its own.

I'm glad you care about the history ... really I am .. and I am sorry for dissing you ... my bad I'll avoid posting with jetlag influence. The translated team just seems to actually be a different roster and play style of team to me whereas this variant just seems to me to be slow Humans or agile Orcs and my playing style is such that neither of these seem different enough to be a new roster.

Again I've been told to avoid the my way is best attitude and so I'll step out of the conversation. I definitely think the team you posted is part Human and part Orc and would qualify as a Half-Orc roster in its conception.

Really all the article was supposed to be was a historical translation of 1st edition as the column I write for House Rulez is all about the game's history. The translation to LRB is really meant as history reference only and its neither a recommendation or suggestion of playing the team. So my opinion above about your team is just that its my opinion. The historical translation is very accurate ... whether that's a good team to play with or not ... is up to the readers to decide.

So what I'm trying to say is that the article really isn't me endorsing the translated roster, think of its a factual report rather than a new suggestion. So if we want to have a have a new Half-Orc team, your suggestion is just entirely as valid as any other Torg and I honestly believe that. I enjoy using history when we can, but sometimes its just not praticial to use the translated rules (see my article in House Rulez #1 about Mummies in 1st edition)

So I'm not married to the translated 1st edition Half-Orc roster, I think it has interesting potential ... that's all. And I've seen the roster in play so I have some idea of how it differs for the current official rosters. Now I'll back out, and let folks discuss the merits/cons of the roster you suggested.

Galak

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:46 pm

aw, come on galak.. this is a bulletin board, i'm pretty sure the point is to find someone who didn't elaborate their opinion well, left out or mis-typed something, expressed a contrary opinion, or otherwise just bothered to post... then tell them to shut the hell up...

that's what bulletin boards are for, right?

no? really? glad i'm not the only one who missed the memo.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:29 pm

The whole concept behind this roster is to have it half-way between hummies and orcs, so it should look like slow hummies or agile orcs. The main thing that makes this different is the variety of positions, otherwise the roster would be inferior to both hummies and orcs and there would be no reason to play them. With both catchers and blockers it gives you something a little different tactically, BTW there are still only 10 position players total. Anyway, if someone would like to post what they think would be a better half-orc team, I would be interested in seeing it.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 5:54 pm

Torg wrote:Anyway, if someone would like to post what they think would be a better half-orc team, I would be interested in seeing it.

I barely managed to not be a smart-*ss with this one Torg.

Also as for Orcs not having a catcher ... please keep in mind that 0-4 Goblins are now an official part of the Orc roster per the LRB 1.3 ... so Orcs have catchers.

Galak

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:47 pm

Yes, orcs have players that can be used as catchers, but my point was that this line-up would be different enough from either humans or orcs.

BTW I was not trying to imply that my idea was the best one for half orcs, I meant that I would like to see what other people think would constitute a Half Orc team. (Don't know why you would have to be 'smart-*ss')

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 7:02 pm

I guess what I'd like to know is if anyone sees this team as have potential beyond that of its parent races. IE would anyone take Torg's Half-Orc team over a Human or Orc team from the LRB? If so why ... it not ... why not?

Answers to those questions can be very helpful when trying to work out a new roster.

Also if anyone who has read the 1st edition conversion has compared it to this roster and what they think.

Heck, most of the new rosters in the MBBL2 are a results of 2 years of playtesting and changes. The same is true for plasmoid's league. New rosters are rarely perfect with their initial creation.

Galak

Pink Horror · Post by **Pink Horror** » Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:28 pm

Okay, Galak's pulling his punches, so I'll step in and be frank:

The 1st edition Half-Orc translation in House Rulez 3 is a much,

much,

much,

MUCH

more interesting and worthwhile addition to the game than Torg's version of half-orcs. Are half-orcs supposed to be stupid or something? Where's the team strategy here? If I was going to stray from the translation in Galak's article, I'd dump the Black Half-Orc Blockers. I think black half-breeds would be about the same as normal half-breeds, and the position name is awkward anyway. The half-orcs could instead have some block/tackle blockers and maybe the blitzers could get mighty blow or break tackle instead of block.

Then again, I never liked half-breeds in fantasy games of any sort. They're never as interesting as the pure strains. By the way, why just half-orcs? Let's get some half-dwarfs, dwarf-elfs, half-elfs, skaven-lings, beast-chaos-dwarf-warriors, and zombie-centaurs!

Pink Horror

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:55 am

Skaven-lings. I really, really, really, really like that idea

Loads of short fat bigfooted rats running around. (let's not go anywhere near thinking about how such a creature could have been created without the aid of a night on the warpstone schnapps)

One thing, can we call them Skabbits?

Back on topic....

I have to agree with Mr Pink here and say that Galak's rules are in fact fare more interesting. They bring something new to the table in a way that trying to tread the middle ground between orcs and humans does not.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:51 am

I'll echo Marcus and PH.

plus the very image of Zombie-Centaurs will stay with me for a while. Which side would be the childbearing one? I'm lost in my own sick little world.

those Halflings would be welsh no doubt?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:07 am

Ok, first of all, I want to make it clear I wasn't presenting the HO team idea as a substitute for the 1ed HOs in Galak's (oops, sorry, I mean Tom's) article. I found the team interesting. I was presenting what I thought of when I hear the word Half Orc, something between human and orc. Never said it was a good team or that it was better than the 1ed team, just that it was different. When I present an idea in this New Concepts forum, it's to generate discussion, ideas, etc. Not, Hey I thinik this should be included in the ofiicial rules. Looking back on the team list, I would have to say that they would probably not be as good as either pure race team, but does that mean that they wouldn't be something to try, I don't know. Could they be improved, I don't know. That's why I posted the team list on this forum, not to knock Tom's HRmag article.

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