MVP vs Experience Rolls

[neoliminal]

1. Replace the MVP column with an EXP column. This represents the player's EXPerience rating.
2. At the end of each match, roll a D6 for each player. If the D6 roll is higher than the player's EXP total, then the player gains 1 EXP for playing the match. A roll of 6 always succeeds, and a roll of 1 always fails.
3. Each EXP point is worth 1 SPP.

Assume you start a team with 12 players. At the end of the match, 10 of them (on average) will receive an EXP point for playing the game. This is a bit better than what you currently receive (the 5 SPPs from the MVP).

For gods sake, test the ageing roll with this. It seems ideal. Experience and ageing seems like a marriage made in heaven. Work it in there Chet!

[Thadrin]

Automatic aging, by total number of accrued EXP points (player ages after 10 exp, then after every 5 further exp?)

Roll for aging every five exp points, with the roll getting progressively tougher as experience goes up?

[Trambi]

I like that.

[Thadrin]

So aging would become:
Exp Aging roll (D6)
6 2+
11 3+
16 4+
21 5+
26+ 6+

or something similar.

We thereby do away with pretty boy syndrome stars through the experience roll Marcus came up with instead of MVPs, and we get an aging system that is more closely liked with the number of games a player has without the "wave of aging rolls" problem.

[manusate]

I was thinking the same than neo before coming here to post my thoughts.

Linking the Ageing roll to Experience SPPs is the way to go. Maybe it will solve the Ageing problems. It makes much more sense to me.

Two thumbs up!

[Acerak]

Yeah, that's a possibility. If I see one drawback, it's this:

Once a player has 5 EXP, he will gain an EXP only on a roll of 6. This means that it will take him X number of games to gain 5 EXP - let's say 10 games - and then it will take him roughly 27 games to gain the next 5 EXP. And that means that he's going to get one shot to age, very early in his career...after which he's going to survive a very, very long time without aging. In fact, it's a safe bet that a VERY small number of players will ever make that second roll. The vast majority of players will never see it.

So it looks good at first, but I don't think it's going to fly because of that "progressively harder roll" bit. And I would never suggest making a player make an aging check/roll for FAILING to learn something from the game.

-Chet

[manusate]

I see the drawback. That´s why I was thinking in a different approach, something like fixed events for determinate exp points.

For example:
- When a player gets 15 EXP points, then he won´t learn anymore. He has reached his top, and won´t get any skill after that. He will still earn SPPs though.
- When a player reaches 20 EXP points, he is bored and burnout. He just wants to retire and will quit playing no matter what he is paid.

Well, need to adjust the numbers a bit, but you get the picture.


Manu

[Marcus]

Very cool idea, I like it a hell of a lot. You really do get a "his career is coming to a close" kind of feel with that rule. If you only apply experience points to players who actually took the field during the match you might get some players not fielding their stars towards the end of the season. They're getting on a bit and don't play in as many matches as they used to, what with all their jobs on CabalVision and all.

If you wanted some optional league rules, you could also factor in experience points into an end of season retirement structure. For example - your team gets 200 Experience "coins" to buy back their players with at the end of a season. Your end of team season cannot have more than 200 points of experience total. Players that retire get replaced for free.

Marcus

[Darkson]

I like these rules, especially the "carrer winding down".

Might of stopped one of my mates playing his mummy against me, who always seemed to roll 6's

[manusate]

I´m sure that Marcus-Acerak rule is far better than random MVP´s. I have no doubt about it.

I would also prefer something like I proposed above rather than current Aging rules.

I think both ideas are good enough to be seriously considered.

[manusate]

Here you have the rules we´re discussing:

Code: Select all

These rules replace current MVP:
1. Replace the MVP column with an EXP column. This represents the player's EXPerience rating. 
2. At the end of each match, roll a D6 for each player. If the D6 roll is higher than the player's EXP total, then the player gains 1 EXP for playing the match. A roll of 6 always succeeds, and a roll of 1 always fails. 
3. Each EXP point is worth 1 SPP.

These rules replace current Ageing:
4. When a player reaches 10 EXP points, the player won´t learn anymore. He has reached his top performance and won´t get any skill beyond this point. He will still earn SPPs though.
5. When a player get´s his 15th EXP point, he is so bored and burnout that  will quit playing no matter what he is paid. Player retires.

Hope this is of any help for the newcomers...

[DoubleSkulls]

I think those numbers for aging are a little bit on the high side.

By my calculations it will take, on average 43.7 games to reach 10 EXP, and 73.7 games to reach 15 EXP.

Remember that once you've got 4 EXP it takes 6 games to get each additional EXP, and 4 EXP will normally take 13.7 games (6/5 + 6/4 + 6/3 + 6/2).

A lot of where you set the levels is dependent on how well developed you want teams to become - but 70+ games is a lot of BB.

The other downside to tying EXP to aging is that slower developing positions (e.g. line men) are never going to get a lot of skills as they will get relatively few SPPs from EXP and it makes their advancement even slower - on average you have to play 20 games to get to 6 SPPs through EXP alone.

Here are my figures:

Code: Select all

EXP    Games
1      1.2
2      2.7
3      4.7
4      7.7
5      13.7
6      19.7
7      25.7
8      31.7
9      37.7
10     43.7
11     49.7
12     55.7
13     61.7
14     67.7
15     73.7

Ian

[Moonsong]

Me likes it too

Only the quantity of rolls leaves me a bit perplexed, but I can live with it (I could live with almost anything, except the OSPA!!!!)

By my calculations it will take, on average 43.7 games to reach 10 EXP, and 73.7 games to reach 15 EXP.

Right, but we do want a few players to be able to reach the MYTHICAL 7th skill, isn't it?

Moonsong

[manusate]

Ian, that nice post of yours got me thinking. I´m still on it.

[SBG]

Hi there !

At the risk of being blasted by all who like the rule, I must say that I hate it.

I think that the simple answer to the MVP "Beautiful Factor" is to allow only players who actually played in the game to be chosen. It stops your waterboy from receiving it two games in a row.

As for ageing, I can understand why it's there, but I hate it. Enough players will gain NI in the span of a season, why had more ? Because the guy got lucky and made a few interceptions ? Because he scored two TD in the same game ?

What's more fun : having 6 guys with two skills and a NI each or a guy with three or four skills, a couple with one or two and a couple of guys with NI on your team. I prefer the second option. Because the way I understand it, with this rule, they would have to roll for ageing every 5 EXP points earned PLUS each time they gain a skill ? Come on, not every pro athlete gain an injury every 5 games they play ! For that matter, I would be more encline to have an ageing roll made after every season : it makes more sense to me that a player ages after a season than after a skill gained. But I could see a seasoned veteran of three season having difficulties following the younger players of the league, especially in a sport as brutal as Blood Bowl !

Isn't the point of skill advancement to have some players reaching high SPP level ? With this new ruling, I don't see it coming. Once they reached the second skill, they'll be crippled with NI.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

Fred