human catchers...st 2

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:11 am

and then as far as fluff aspect they are fast but the armor gets in the way of hitting and they are kinda small too.

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:04 pm

But not as small as flings or gobbos, but that's the 6-standard that GW uses.

If they are "small and fast", as you say, than maybe AG4 isnt a bad idea.

I dont know really, just follow this discussion !

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:39 pm

agi 4 makes this team like the sick skaven team but with more blitzer and higher av linemen....

they are a passing team, giving them 4 agi 4 players helps that goal too much, imo.

Brokje · Post by **Brokje** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:32 am

Indeed, a thrower with pass and sure hands (standard) and accurate (first skill) and strong arm on doubles passing on a ag 3 catch, dodge high mv player with cheep team rerolls is already good imo. I never have trouble with keeping them alive, in rookie teams the catchers should have blodge within 2 games, making it hard to get them down for all but (chaos) dwarfs. In more developed teams the catchers should have sidestep and be accompanied by a guard blitzer, possibly with mighty blow/tackle. Should be enough for back up, especially if you can do this twice.

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:19 am

Im not saying it's a bad league team... It's just that well, look through the thread.
Maybe AG4 is OTT. But as it is now, catchers dont "fit" well in the starting line up from humans. Doesnt prevent me from playing them though.

Mattchaos · Post by **Mattchaos** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:56 am

I really think there are some racial caracteristics and strength and agility should not move a lot for one race.
Do you imagine an elf with Ag 3 ?
Or an human with strength 2 ? (oh sorry there is one ...)
Humans should be strength 3 and agility 3, and with move between 5 or 6 to 8 and Ar at least 7 ...
Human catchers are quick but they are catchers not runners so a move of 7 could be ok, and other carac should be more human than actual ones.

hollowone · Post by **hollowone** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:49 am

I agree with Mattchaos. Can you imagine coaches going, "You! You're as strong as a child, strap on some armour and run onto the pitch!"

I think it'd be a lot better to base the Human Catcher off a High Elf Lion Warrior with Ag 3 and Dodge instead of Ag 4, or something along those lines.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:53 pm

Hi all,
just some food for thought:

In my league, we've allowed human teams to buy halflings, just like orc teams are allowed to take goblins.
This gives the human team access to TTM plays, and potential OTS, as well as super cheap players for their starting team.

Also, with the Moot being an imperial province, it fits the fluff fine.
A small but significant upgrade

Cheers
Martin

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:19 pm

if we're at changing the human team, one thing i would like would be to take away the Ogre, not include flings of course, and to boost the catchers. we would have a purely human team, better than the current one, that could be a good idea for me.

Pipey · Post by **Pipey** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:30 pm

Humans definitely need looking at IMO. They're one of the weaker teams at present and could do with a lift.

If you make catchers AG 4 then they would need to be 80k and 0-2.
If you make them ST 3 then I would take away their dodge skill, make them 80k and reduce them to 0-2.
(In both cases I would leave skill access as it is)

I wouldn't take away the ogre.
And I would maybe even reduce their rerolls to 40k.

I think then you would see a much more competitive team.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:38 pm

Hi Gus,
IMO, without the big guy, the catchers (or whoever) would need a pretty big boost.
I like the Ogre on the human team both for fluff and balance reasons.

If I could have 1 change to the human team tho', it wouldn't be to the statline. It would be changing their name to the Imperial Team. I mean, norse and amazons are human too, right?

Cheers
Martin

longfang · Post by **longfang** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:47 pm

Don't ever reduce the number of human catchers to 2. Being able to take 3 in a starting roster is seriously benificial to a human team. So they are strength 2, that's because they are catchers and not meant to be turned into a blitzer with the simple addition of Block. Could you imagine a human team with 4 move 7 blitzrs and at least 2 move 8 blitzers? Doesn't that sound a little broken? The benefit they give to the team is the fairly safe ability to dodge out of a tackle zone, run 8 squares and lend a much needed assist to one of the 4 lovely blitzers.

If you can't play human catchers then go and play Orcs.

Pipey · Post by **Pipey** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:04 pm

Well as things currently stand, i wouldn't take more than 2 catchers in a starting human team. Bottom line would be 4 blitzers and a thrower and after that there'd be no room for 3+ catchers. I would rather have 0-2 AG4 catchers than 0-4 AG3. Ask any skaven coach whether he would prefer 0-4 AG3 GRs or 0-2 AG4 - 99% would opt for the latter.

Neither would I say that 4xMV7 and 2XMV8 players all with Str3 is especially broken. Plenty of elf teams and skaven teams have a similar speed potential and AG4 on top.

Just making a few suggestions because in tournament play at least, there is very strong evidence that Humans don't cut the mustard (just look at the NAF rankings - they're miles down).

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:06 pm

longfangs, HE get 4 mv 8 blitzers and 2 mv 7 blitzers. and they are clearly not broken right?

the only thing that concerns me is that making the humans have str 3 catchers might make them a lot like the undead team, but more mobile, so i guess i'd like to see catchers 8 2 3 8 catch dodge 70k to help out the poor ole 'ummies.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:10 am

after thinking a bit and putting aside my prejudices, i'd like to state the following:
- for me, AG4 is a BIG no-no in a human team. they don't have any ST4 either. for me, human is "average everywhere, making up with skills".
- ST3, AG3, AV8. now, for the catchers, either raise their ST or their AV.
- only human, no BG
- prices adjusted to make up for all that. this includes any or all of the following: raise the price for the catcher (if +ST), lower the price of the blitzer, lower the price of the RR.

even if i don't find the current human team underpowered, i believe it would play slightly differently like that, and that's a change i wouldn't mind trying.