Wild Animal and IP Process

[DoubleSkulls]

Have a look at http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=2147.

bingbong186 raised the question about what should happen if you fail to move a Wild Animal at the start of your turn, and use a reroll to counter the IP call.

Does the WA still move? If so when?

Either way it leaves a nasty loophole that you can burn the reroll to get away with not moving or moving your WA later in the turn.

Your Rat Ogre is surrounded so its only options are 1/2 die blocks or dodges requiring 5/6. So instead of moving him you "forget" and burn the reroll. If you'd remembered there would be a good chance you would turnover before anyone else moved.

Is there any "official" or Rules Guru ruling on this?

Is there any ruling on "deliberate" IP's? I know its cheating - and therefore you should forfit, but almost impossible to prove.

Ian

[McDeth]

I think you need to be aware of the situation, and remind the player that he hasn't moved his WA or declared an action with it at the start of his turn, in that way your forcing him to make a decision just in case he is plotting something like that.

If barring that you are going to call an IP, i guess you'll call it as soon as he's moved another player anyway, unless of course you haven't spotted it either until half way through the turn.

if thats the case then my thoughts are that the WA should lose his action for that turn

[Bevan]

bingbong186 raised the question about what should happen if you fail to move a Wild Animal at the start of your turn, and use a reroll to counter the IP call.

Does the WA still move? If so when?

Ian

Using a reroll doesn't let you ignore the event that caused the Illegal Procedure. If you forget to move your turn counter you can't spend a reroll and still not move it (so you get an extra turn at the end of the game).

As soon as the opponent points out that you've failed to move your Wild Animal, you can spend a reroll, but you would have to move him immediately. If other players have completed moves then they would stand, but if you were partway through another player's move I would return the player to his starting square and leave that move until after the WA move.

[gallowin]

I would definitely like to hear a ruling from the powers that be but if I were faced with making a decision during the season...

1st time I'd let it slide. After that the Wild Animal mini just lost it's oppurtunity as Wild Animal says they are the first action of the turn. IMO you've already skipped that player.

I'd hate to see someone abuse the rule like that.

[GalakStarscraper]

This came up before Resurrection.

Basically the ruling was.

Trys to move a player with WA first ... tweet Illegal Procedure .. player pays the re-roll for the IP.

Grabs back hold of that mini to move it .... tweet Illegal Procedure.

Bottom line ... technically speaking every time you try to move someone without WA first its an IP even the same player. Official ruling: The WA MUST move first even if the move is to not move at all. There is no way around this ... ie any preceived loopholes are not really there.

Galak

[DoubleSkulls]

I know this thread stinks of Cheddar, but I want to be prepared in case someone tries it.

Galak, you seem to be saying that you must move the WA next "even if the move is to not move at all" so you could avoid that 1/2 die block by burning an IP.

So you do get to complete the player you are moving when the IP is called. If so, what if he is going to effect the WA action? (e.g. by removing assists).

In a friendly environment I think I'd probably either try to back track (if no dice had been thrown) or leave it up to the opponent to decide whether the WA has to move or not.

[Deathwing]

Galak, you seem to be saying that you must move the WA next "even if the move is to not move at all" so you could avoid that 1/2 die block by burning an IP.

Wrong end of the stick mate, there's no way to avoid throwing a Block with a WA at the start of your turn if he's adjacent to another player. What Galak's saying is that you can't avoid the Block, even by burning a RR. And technically you do have to activate the WA, even if he moves 0 squares.

[DoubleSkulls]

So I'm playing Skaven and at the start of my turn the RO is in a position where he has to throw a 1/2 die block. I "forget" to move him 1st and begin to move a linerat. My opponent calls IP. Then I spend the RR to avoid the turnover and:

1) Finish moving the linerat. Then I take the action with the RO or its another IP.

2) Leave the linerat where he is when the IP is called and immediately take the RO's action. If its not a turnover:
a) I continue the linerat's action.
b) The linerat has finished his action and can no longer move.

Ian

[Vesticle]

I don't think there's any official ruling, but I think it'd be some sort of agreement, that seems the least beardy. It's not just with Wild Animal and IP, the same situation could happen with any mistake in the game that isn't caught immediately, like thinking you succeeded/failed because you forgot one of the modifiers, or throwing the wrong number of dice for a block, because you missed or counted an extra assist.

Personally, if possible, I would recommend moving everything back to where it was before the mistake, if able, and then re-doing it from there. If a turnover or negative result occured for the coach who made the mistake, I would give his/her opponent the option to let the play stand, and continue from where it is, as a bit of a 'penalty' against the coach who made the mistake. Kind of like "decline penalty" in real football.

[GalakStarscraper]

So I'm playing Skaven and at the start of my turn the RO is in a position where he has to throw a 1/2 die block. I "forget" to move him 1st and begin to move a linerat. My opponent calls IP. Then I spend the RR to avoid the turnover and:

1) Finish moving the linerat. Then I take the action with the RO or its another IP.

2) Leave the linerat where he is when the IP is called and immediately take the RO's action. If its not a turnover:
a) I continue the linerat's action.
b) The linerat has finished his action and can no longer move.

Ian

3) You return the Linerat to where he was before you started moving him and do the RO's action.

What I'm trying to say is simple .... you must activate the WA first even if after activiation you don't move him (remember once activated he must block adjacent opponent). You cannot as some have suggested burn a re-roll to not activate him and then move other players. Everytime you try to move a player before a WA, it would be an IP ... the other player would need to be returned to his starting position. ... this was the ruling from the BBRC before Resurrection and I 100% agree with it.

Galak

[Deathwing]

So I'm playing Skaven and at the start of my turn the RO is in a position where he has to throw a 1/2 die block. I "forget" to move him 1st and begin to move a linerat. My opponent calls IP. Then I spend the RR to avoid the turnover and:

1) Finish moving the linerat. Then I take the action with the RO or its another IP.

2) Leave the linerat where he is when the IP is called and immediately take the RO's action. If its not a turnover:
a) I continue the linerat's action.
b) The linerat has finished his action and can no longer move.

Ian

Just backtrack. You MUST throw the block first. Forget IPs for the moment.
Treat it the same as you MUST make a dodge roll when leaving a tackle zone. You wouldn't allow somebody to make a Blitz for example and 'forget' to make a necessary Dodge before rolling the Block dice and then call IP would you? Same principle.
The IP wording is there so you can't move another player and then the WA later in the turn assuming he's not adjacent to another player. If he is, then he MUST throw the block, exactly the same as you MUST roll a D6 to Go For It or make a Dodge etc. It could be better worded, but that's how it works.

[DoubleSkulls]

Comprehension dawns.

Cheers guys

[Marcus]

Can't find the thread on this but there was a long discussion. Basically the wording of the rule allowed for this kind of interpretation.

Can we ditch Wild Animal yet? Please?

Marcus

[Valen]

I hope they don't ditch wild animal!

In our league there is a team of Minotaurs. I have great fun against these with my elves, I just love dodging all my players away, and then just standing back to watch those crazy fools kick ten tonnes of c**p out of each other.

The last time we played I racked up an 8-0 victory, it was so cool.

[DoubleSkulls]

Valen - I don't think you can be playing the same WA rules.

Have a look at the LRB, 1.3.

Ian