Issues with sportsmanship/painting points etc.

[Tomba]

My comments on the sportsmanship points. Basically I fully support the idea in theory... however, in practice it doesn't work very well....

I agree completely.

I like what Dave did at the Spiky tournament: have a sportsmanship category and then not use it as it 'keeps people from acting like *rseholes' (my interpretation of what he said). The only problem with this is if people know this in advance and think then act 'unsportsmanlike'.

Perhaps it should be purely a negative thing- ie everyone gets full marks unless someone complains about poor behaviour or conduct.

Not entirely sure how this could work fairly in practice either though...

Tomba... thinking aloud.

[Tomba]

I do the same... but i always ask before start of the game, how my oppo handles this rule. If i knew he likes playing using stricly the rule, ok... Luckly all 6 oppos at the BB agreed not to use this rule and play for fun.

Traveller

At the risk of starting a large international flame war (defintiely *not* my intention!) I believe many of the problems experienced here concerns our (ie the British) concept of fair play.

For example in (non-American) football in British eyes simulation (aka diving to gain a free kick for a foul) is pretty much the ultimate sin. In certain other countries in Europe it's seen as playing to the rules and if you can get an opposition player sent off then that's good play on your part. The phrasiology is from a football pundit on the radio (5 Live) whose name I cannot recall.

I don't know how factually accurate the above statement is (and I hope no-one finds it offensive) but it would explain some of the behaviour I see at BB tournaments where (generally British) coaches complain about the excessively rulesmongering of their (usually continental) opponents. It may be that the British are excessively lenient and expect others to put them right should they forget to move their turn counter along, whereas other coaches see it as an opportunity to deprieve their opponents of a re-roll, thereby giving themselves an advantage.

Either way, it is a good idea to clarify arrangements such as these before the match should there be any doubt.

Oh, and I'm not too sure where you Americans fit into this- I've never had any problems playing an American, so maybe you retain the British concept of fair play as opposed to the ultra-competitive outlook of others?

I could of course be completely wrong....

Tomba

[grotemuis]

you are We european types (pun intended) have the same concept of sportmanship

the problem with the sportmanship was not the concept (people got that), but more the problems with the counting. If you win a match 3-0 your opponent is not likely to put awesome match. If your grasp of english isn't that good, but you're a really swell guy, doesn't matter you're going to get a great match max. An awesome match depends on luck. Yes luck, whether you and you're have the same amount. This is going to be a big factor in whether the game will be tense or not.

these are lot of examples why players should only be fined for being an arse and not rewarded for something as arbitrary as this

[Tomba]

If your grasp of english isn't that good, but you're a really swell guy, doesn't matter you're going to get a great match max. An awesome match depends on luck. Yes luck, whether you and you're have the same amount. This is going to be a big factor in whether the game will be tense or not.

these are lot of examples why players should only be fined for being an arse and not rewarded for something as arbitrary as this

I completely agree. Personally I enjoy the social side of the game and when I can't communicate as well with my opponent I don't enjoy the game as much, even though every player I have played at tournaments who didn't speak too much English were really pleasant, the lack of 'banter' meant that I didn't enjoy the game so much, but I don't see why those coaches (or presumably, me in those coaches eyes) should be penalised for this. (My own grasp of any other language is a sad indictment of my culture, unfortunately and my laziness )

A penalty for poor sportsmanship makes sense, but as different people have very different definitions of what a 'good' match should be it seems a bit daft to try to award points for 'good' or 'awesome' games.

Of course, what the penalty should be and how the system should be policed is a thorny issue, for the reasons which have already been stated in this thread. Some coaches regard a receiving a thumping as a poor game, regardless of how the gamne was played, and some safeguards should be in place to avoid coaches being penalised for beating their opponents comprehensively (not that I've ever scaled such heights ) but what these could be I have no idea.

I certainly meant no offence to anyone in my previous post, and I suppose my opinions are formed on the basis of a small number of foreign players (and one or two natives) in the English Premiership who play a little fast and loose with the 'spirit of the game'. I should probably have thought a little more before posting, as I'd hate to be judged by the standards of what other Europeans must think about the English by our conduct regarding football 'supporters'. Apologies to where they're due.

I truly think that trying to define what makes an enjoyable match is a pointless task as there are so many variables.

Let's just have a Prat Penalty and leave it at that?

Tom

[Deathwing]

I rated all my games/opponents as 'great'. (They were!) Looks like by not taking the 'awesome' option apparently favoured by many (and how many of those were mutual?) I've cost (universally across the board) very sporting, friendly and entertaining opponents some positions in the final standings.
Personally I only ever worry about W/T/L anyway...23rd, 63rd, 183rd..what's the difference?

[TiMuN]

My games at the BB were all Great at least, but then, i laughed constantly while failing roll after roll with my Troll at my first match vs. Kool, and i marked it as an Awesome match.

Then, i played Steve 'Spike' at one of the rounds, and this time it was me who had the luck on my side, but the guy was so fun and friendly to play (thanx Spike!) that i marked it an Awesome match too .. not that i did because of my rolls, but the way the match went like even in those circumstances ...

But i do see the point there. No fun, or less fun, playing someone who doesn't speak much, because of the language barrier .. i know the feeling.

[traveller]

i voted four of my games " great"... and two games as "awesomes" as IMO we both coaches had a lot of fun with very complicated or crasy movements on the gamefield. I remember this mess playing against a gobbo team: 3 trolls in the middle, my big BOs and lots of gobbos in between... it was hardly possible to move one player without moving 3 or 4 others Lots of laughts.... especial as my troll tried again to eat my gobbo.

I never checked the voting of my opponent coaches, i just voted using my own " feeling".

Traveller

[Indigo]

This whole sportsmanship issue is/has been heavily debated at the NAF site, and I think one of my favourite approaches for dealing with it in future is to only penalise people for poor sporting games. Everyone is assumed to have had a SPORTING game, and any result to the contrary will need to be discussed with the ref.

Instead of that though, I'm going for a new award "Most Exciting Opponent" (or such like) whereby people award points based on how much fun they got out of the game. This means that, generally speaking, closer 1-1 or 2-1 type games will be rewarded for the fun factor. The only player who enjoys a thrashing is the thrasher - the thrashee can easily lose interest.

Also, most people commonly confusing a sporting player with a good game, so this new award system should counteract that.

[traveller]

I'm going for a new award "Most Exciting Opponent"

IMO a good idea ! A seperate award like the "most travelled" and no impact at the ranking !

Traveller

[dantitan76]

I'm going for a new award "Most Exciting Opponent"

IMO a good idea ! A seperate award like the "most travelled" and no impact at the ranking !

Traveller

I agree with it.... so at least you dont have any mistake at the end of the tourney with Sporting points....