Lizardmen how to use them.

[Pantera]

Well, I do like to play Orc and Skaven before. Maybe it was a bit much with 6, but I thought some advice I got in the other forum was good. The Saurus was slow to advance and you needed as many from start. The Skinks will brake often, and therefore it is good with a powerful 6-Saurus line. I havn't decided fully yet.

I hope to get my Lizardmen team from GW Mailorder this week.

[Sputnik]

Pantera,

Skinks are not naked at all. With dodge and stunty they are hard to bring down for other rookie teams without block or tackle. And since you can ignore tackle zones while dodging it's pretty easy to find a "hole" if you want to push it a bit. Once your opponent gets some skills you should have some yourself. And skinks advance pretty fast. I can usually score 3 TD per game making it for one or two skinks to get a new skill (to get their first or second).



As for the sauri I didn't really have much luck so far. Casualties are too unpredictable and I don't know why, but they seem not willing to gain a skill . OR GET AG+1

Anyway, with ST4 and AV9 they are still cool enough to beat someone up.
But I use usually 5 of them on the pitch at a time, when playing defence also a krox, for I need blockers who can bring down some guys. Too many skinks can't manage for themselves and invite the opponent to stick to the ball a turn longer and mob you up (this +1 modifier and AV7 are no good to stand and fight for long ).

Sputnik

[NightDragon]

I have a 3rd ed team and a 2K1 team. As you say with an Elven thrower the 3rd ed team is a force to be reckoned with. I like 6 saurus, 1 Kroxigor and the rest Skinks. I think that is more than enough Skinks to give you the extra pace and agility needed. To me the Saurus boys are the backbone of the team. Block and break tackle are essential and then I would go for mighty blow or strip ball or guard. You need to protect your ball carrier and be able to get at theirs, that's why I go for 6. The Krox can hold up the front line. Laters DD.

[Cervidal]

A lot of what I'm hearing here is hogwash. Lizardmen have two strengths - the initial muscle of their front line and that their agility players are fairly cheap to replace.

Skinks are not going to get many skills that turn them into a powerhouse force. They get agility skills. Unless they get doubles, odds are they're going to end up with Side Step, Sure Feet, and Catch. A skink with those three skills is not worth the thirty SPPs that it took to get him there.

Saurus are not going to get many skills, period. As mentioned earlier, if they get AG+, you're going to cry. Piling On is essential for the first two or three Saurus to get skills. Block for the rest of them. Trying to come up with a development plan for them beyond that is nigh useless because your league will dissolve by then!

Now for what the team can actually do...

Skinks are the best stunty players in the game. They don't need many skills beyond what they have. You can use the little buggers to apply assists nearly anywhere and you won't have to worry about them getting hit because, after your first half dozen games, you should have a full reserve of the little guys. Granted, they're not 'fling cheap but you should be able to afford two every three games. These guys score, these guys pester on defense. Use them like you would use Wood Elf linemen on defense and you'll be just fine.

Saurus aren't much different than Black Orcs, except that they can shift field sides much more quickly. They hit well but they don't get hit well. If you're on the attack, make sure your Saurus are knocking over appropriate players to keep them in 2db your choice situations. The moment your opponent starts getting any real blocking advantage on you, your whole line is going to tip over in short order. Long defensive drives are not your friend with this team unless you're playing against Elves or something similar!

This isn't a team you can plan long term with. Skinks won't likely get anything to make them worth overprotecting and Saurus are unlikely to get past 15 SPPs. Just form a wall and overwhelm 'em with your breakaway speed.

[sean newboy]

Cervidal just how often have u used lizardmen? Not to mention it seems u or your oppenents using lizardmen have been very unlucky. I prefer block and mostly guard ( 4 guards max) rather than break tackle. U also dint mention any stat increases for skinks, having 2 or more av4 skinks radically changes your capabilities, especially if one or more of them get +1 mv.

[Zy-Nox]

Orcs, Nah, Pantera you want to play against Skaven
Out block 'em and armour 7= serious casualties..STOMPY STUFF
I was looking at lizzies for a torney 6 saurus 4 skinks then Krox or star, Ive tried this out a lot and won 3 in a row by 3 tds,but then I like a lot of sides so cant decide

[Sputnik]

Ups! And I thought a skink with blodge and sidestep would make a tough guy...

My opponents frequently get into trouble with those little creepers...

And two or three of these Sprint/Sure feet/Catch Skinks are of value in my team, too.

Cervidal:
What exactly did you think of with "long term"? For I didn't play more than two seasons with the lizzies so far. And so far they are competitive.

And I usually don't overprotect any player in any team. Especially not Skinks. I usually don't even really protect skinks. Maybe I should start with it to reduce casualties.

But my opponents always try to get them all. No matter where I place them on the field.


Sputnik

[Cervidal]

I'm currently using them in a league known as the OBL and I've played them in other league settings.

When thinking long term team development you cannot depend on stat increases. Yes, an Ag+ skink is a deadly weapon. I will never base my team's direction on the hope that I get one. A ST+ skink is a great thing to have, and my OBL team has one. I did not base my team around thinking I'd have one.

It's silly logic to say 'if this player gets lucky and gets... doubles, stat increase, anything. I have to build my team around the assumption that I will roll a seven every single time I go for a skill. This is especially true with Lizardmen. None of my skinks will be premier players without several sets of doubles or a stat increase. The same is true to a lesser extent with Saurus. They are likely only going to get between 6 and 10 SPPs maximum in fifteen games. It's just the way the players function.

Yes, a lot of my team planning sounds pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, I really like Lizardmen as a team. I think they are one of the best out-of-the-box teams in Blood Bowl. Long term, though? They aren't going to get much better than they start. Your best bet is to max out the roster, get rerolls, and abuse your speed. That's not going to change from game one to game thirty.

[sean newboy]

With a basic minimum of 5 skinks, stat increases arent really a challenge. I had 2 liz teams in a total of 6 seasons, and had more than 6 mv/ag increases in each team. I never over defended my skinks, most times i just sent my catchers out full tilt, whichever one was in the best position was given the ball.

[Cervidal]

On a full roster you'll have nine skinks. Usually only four or five will be on the field. Assuming three touchdowns per game, not an unreasonable total for Lizardmen, you're likely to get one skill per game, maybe two if the MVPs fall right. For rant's sake, assume an average of 1.5 skills per game (a rather high estimate, though).

Stat increases happen about one in six rolls. (Discount luck in this)

Doubles are rolled one in six times.

After the intersection (double fives, sixes) is figured in, you have about an 10/36 chance of taking something out of the ordinary.

Assuming the above, I'm getting something nifty just under half of my games. I would be considered nuts for depending on 4+ dodge rolls to win games so why would it be any more rational for me to depend on doubles and stat increases for my team?

If you're getting them regularly, great. You have a leg up on your opposition. There's a coach I'm about to play with a disgustingly large amount of luck when it comes to rolling boxcars. I have rolled doubles once and boxcars once this season.

I still consider myself at an advantage, though. I know my team inside and out and I don't depend on my S3 Skink like he depends on his trio of ST+ Chaos Dwarves. He has that strength factored into every game plan he comes up with but I treat all of my players like rookies out of the box. Lizardmen are a role team and have to be run as such for any long term success.

I'm also not trying to knock the way you develop your team. I really hope, though, that you don't depend on stat increases to the point that you'd be helpless if you had to start your team all over again and had half the luck you seem to have.

[sean newboy]

Read my above post, i did start over from scratch. The second team ended up in second place 2 seasons in a row, the only 2 seasons i played them. They were 18-5 including special games. It wasnt luck, just the odds, if u have alot of advances your going to have alot of doubles and stat increases, u just never know what kinds and on who.

[Sputnik]

Jap, It's no good to build a team around a stat increase which is to come in the future...

I had a few doubles for my skinks and I think you can always take those into account when choosing a team. And one double per skink is more than enough to get a lot of them to a level where you are not dependend from that one star in your team and have some variety of different skills. And since skinks are fragile, even with a stat increase they might not stay long enough on the pitch...

And IMO Skinks are good enough as they are to go for a long time and they will only be better with a stat increase. I can live without any increase and will still be able to score and win games...

Cervidal:

I can't get rid of the feeling that you are very right with the sauri and their SPP after 15 games...

But I will try piling on!

Sputnik

[Pantera]

Thanks for all tips!

One thing I now will suck is picking up the ball with AG3 and only 2 Team RR. Better save the pickup for the planned last action

[Sputnik]

Don't be afraid and make an optimisitic face while rolling the dice. Nothing is more depressing for your opponent than hoping for you to fail just to see you suceeding all the time . Otherwise it will surely not work.
I tend to place another skink next to the ball first in case anything goes wrong. (for example a saurus TRYING to block!). And then trying to pick up the ball as the last action. But of course, it depends on your opponent and against a fast and agile team I would suggest saving the ball first. Saving your rr for the ball handling is VERY important.

Hope for the before-praised doubles to come for sure hands . There are out there waiting for you!

Sputnik

[DoubleSkulls]

Jap, It's no good to build a team around a stat increase which is to come in the future...

I had a few doubles for my skinks and I think you can always take those into account when choosing a team.
Sputnik

There are 6/36 stat increases, 6/36 doubles. But 2 of the doubles are also stat increases. So you are probably more likely to get stat increases than doubles.

However, when I think of stat increases I often mean +AG or +ST (+MA nice but doesn't tend to have the same impact). These only occur 3/36 so aren't happening that often. So you end up with 3/36 +AG/+ST, 5/36 doubles (assuming 55 used as double) leaving 28/36 for +MA and normal skills.

Even so, 8 skill rolls gives a 50% chance of at least one +AG or +ST

Ian