New Handicap Table ... right idea?

[Sputnik]

definetly an improvement, especially that you can split the roll(s) if you like! great idea!!

Speaking of more results (D8 per table sounds good to me) I would also like to see the result back which makes you lose D3 (I think it was D6, actually) random players for the first drive, maybe under desparate measures...

Sputnik

[GalakStarscraper]

Using Ian and Dave's input ... I expanded the results to 8 per a table to give more variety.

And gken ... a lot of people liked the cards, but we've been told for now ... that cards cannot be used. So for now its the table, so the goal is to make it a table that matches up well.

Also please don't argue about how little effect the 10 point handicaps have ... they are 10 point handicaps for a reason.

I agreed with the 10, 20, 40 discussion. As I think it matches up more closely with the fact that JJ was hoping to give the Underdog a decent chance of winning in about 35% of games where they are the underdog (I need to double check that %, but it was in that realm if memory serves).

I went through the Pub cards, MBBL2, MBBL, and CHUBB table to get the extra 6 results.

Galak

[GalakStarscraper]

definetly an improvement, especially that you can split the roll(s) if you like! great idea!!

Speaking of more results (D8 per table sounds good to me) I would also like to see the result back which makes you lose D3 (I think it was D6, actually) random players for the first drive, maybe under desparate measures...

Sputnik

Okay .... hopefully to show I'm listening here as much as possible:

1) Running Late added to Desperate Measures as suggested by Sputnik

2) Docter in the House added to Desperate Measures and Kid's Gloves to the RE&DT table since Ian asked for a couple more damage reducers.

3) Dangerous Dave's suggestion about the kickoff table modified and added to the Good Karma table. (Dave, I'm afraid of the number of Pitch Invasions and Riots that a choose the result option would yield). If I have +4 or more in FF as the underdog and get a result that let's me choose the kickoff result ... instant Pitch Invasion). However, I think the modification makes a good change. A way to get a Blitz here, avoid one there, change Perfect Weather to a Quick Snap ... that's a low level handicap result that is a good suggestion ... thanks for the idea Dave.

Galak

[Jugular]

Instead of this Str4 AV 7 frenzy guy how about replacing it with a 'grudge' player.
"An ex player of the opposing team wants to get one over on them. Choose any non BG player available to the opposing player take three skill rolls for them and add them to your roster until the end of the game. This may exceed your 16 player limit"
Obviously 2 skill rolls could be used or something similar. I think this would be more flavoursome and add more variety to the rolls.
I also agree with 10, 20 and 40 split. Galak there any chance you could post an 'in progress' handicap table so we can seewhere we're at?

[DoubleSkulls]

I like the new ones. This is a real contender.

[GalakStarscraper]

Instead of this Str4 AV 7 frenzy guy how about replacing it with a 'grudge' player.

Seriously from having seen it in action MANY times ... don't underestimate how useful an ST 4 Frenzy player is for a team (ANY team).

I also agree with 10, 20 and 40 split. Galak there any chance you could post an 'in progress' handicap table so we can seewhere we're at?

New table posted.

Galak

[Dangerous Dave]

Palmed Coin

Galak - sure occasionally the KO result can be good - but you were fortunate in the block, armour and cas results. Remember that palmed coin is only benefical 50% of the time (ie when you lose the toss) - in addition, at most Kick offs, I normally don't mind whether I kick or receive - the only times when it matters is when you have another KO result like in the bag. So I would still prefer this one to go.

Team Anthem

Happy to settle for a fixed result - this avoids the +1 or + 2 FF roll which often means no benefit when you are up against a much better team. I suggest a minium of +4.

Rerolls (Babes and Egghead) - my view on this is that if you have 6 cheerleaders and 6 coaches (under LRB rules not MBBL2), you are penalising yourself by adding 12 points of TR - remember this would get you one more Handicap Roll. I play my teams knowing how many rerolls I have - sure stopping your oppo from getting a reroll could be critical - but again you have 50% (cheerleaders etc being equal) of winning anyway. Remember too that the odds of getting these rolls is not that great anyway (each one is 1/9th so with say 4 kick offs you have rougly 60% chance of getting one of these results). So if I get this result I believe it would be a poor result for me.

The appearance fee of 35k - sure in the MBBL / MBBL2 under current rules, cash is largely spent. Using 10k apoths and needing to conserve cash, I believe most good coaches will keep a reserve of cash around - sure this won't happen from time to time - however, I believe coaches will change their spending pattern. Also I have seen so many coaches just spend their last scrap of winnings on a cheerleader or an AC - this surely won't happen (particularly in the MBBL under LRB rules where the KO is the only effect that these have). 35k to ensure winning a game when this gives you 10k back (winnning) plus means that your team is less likely to suffer injuries is a small price to pay.

On the ST 4 Frenzy player - sure its a plus - but my point is that the player is too weak to challenge a higher rated team - if you put him on the los to save your other players, he'll most likely last a turn or two. Use him in the backfield - lack of Block and Tackle will hurt. Hence why I suggested a Big Guy - this will soak up damage and, since they are unreliable, not win you the game either. As most coaches know - frenzy can be useful - it can hurt too - especially when the player doesn't have block.

On the Virus one - fine if niggles are worse I can see why this was pulled. However, you could have d6 players contract a virus - roll a dice for each player - if you roll a 1 they cannot recover to play - deduct 1 for each niggle a player has - eg 2- for 1 niggle means miss game, 3- for 2 niggles etc. That said, this is only a suggestion to help provide extra examples for the table and I have no axe to grind for this.

Glad to help on the KO change! I do agree that Riots and Pitch Invasion are a problem - hence why these need to be changed to d3 (or otherwise reduced in power).



Dave

[Sputnik]

chosing the weather is sometimes a bit of a 'no result'. With most teams I want to have nice weather and the rest may penalize my team more than my opponent.

Granted, it's only a 10 point difference. But the more I think about it, the more I like the combination of the palmed coin and the weather result. Why not chose one of the two possibilities for this handicap? Then we could add another one to the 10 point table. And to either win the coin toss or chosing the weather should surely be useful somehow...for a 10 points difference for sure.

I like the proposed table more and more!

Sputnik

[GalakStarscraper]

chosing the weather is sometimes a bit of a 'no result'. With most teams I want to have nice weather and the rest may penalize my team more than my opponent.

The difference with this version of the weather pick was that you can use it at any time during the game. I'm open to a better result for that one, but again remember its a 10 point effect. Things like Dave's suggestion of give a player a trait is too powerful for a 10 point effect.

And Dave its not a 50/50 effect on the coin toss, because the toss was never made.

So ... what do you want for 10 points of handicap .. SERIOUSLY. I mean TR 100 to 110 ... or TR 170 to 180 ... do we really need more powerful effects at 10 points?

Palmed Coin is a 10 point effect. The weather change at start of ANY drive may or may not be. The whole point of the scaled table is that you can have scaled effects.

I just want you guys to think about how little 10 points of TR is. I'm not convinced that that table needs much more change.

I'm open to the arguments here, but I think Ian has said it also that we cannot expect TOO much for 10 points and I very much concur. The 10 point table should be very minor effects that have very little impact to the game but a gentle nudge. The 8 items on there all fall in that category to me.

Galak

[Thadrin]

I've seen weather choice be devastating...

[DoubleSkulls]

I really like the new weather scroll. I can see a lot of use - almost regardless of what I play I don't mind it suddendly changing to pouring rain on my opponent's drive!

[Jugular]

I can imagine weather choice being a very powerful roll as well. How about using it in place of a KO roll as opposed to any turn during the game. I.e. the KO roll is taken to be a weather roll and you can decide on its outcome. I still think the st4 frenzy player could be a bit useless and is too generic. I sense the opportunity for a bit more excitement to the game with a randomly generated player from the opposing race. If there is absolutely no support for my idea then fair enough but i'd like to know why not :D. The FF increase roll should be set at +3 or +4 I think either playtesting or some number crunching might help narrow it down though. The table is looking good so far.

[gken1]

i like the table alot better now. But i thought the main reason the cards went away was cost. they used to print those things on cardboard stock which i'm sure is not very cost effective. I bet they could churn out some decent priced cards and make some $$ since all of would buy it and use it instead of the tables. It could at least be an optional add on.

Ken

[GalakStarscraper]

I sense the opportunity for a bit more excitement to the game with a randomly generated player from the opposing race. If there is absolutely no support for my idea then fair enough but i'd like to know why not :D.

I'll give you one example ... as a Halfling coach ... getting an extra Halfling for 40 TR down is NOT a good handicap (Goblin coaches as well).

As for breaking easy. My Treeman has hit that d*mn ST 4 Frenzy free player 3 times in row in my current game and he's still tying me up.

Okay ... so the weather is no good or really good ... let's give that one a try first as its one of the results that Milo's been testing for several months already on his original CHUBB table.

I'll change the D6 to a +3 for now which I think is more in line with a 10 point spread.

Galak

[GalakStarscraper]

i like the table alot better now.

Since you are a hard man to sell ... I'll take that as a great step forward.

But i thought the main reason the cards went away was cost. they used to print those things on cardboard stock which i'm sure is not very cost effective. I bet they could churn out some decent priced cards and make some $$ since all of would buy it and use it instead of the tables. It could at least be an optional add on.

Ken

Its a mix of cost and hassle I think. The only card based handicap system I've seen them even want to consider is one that could be done with a deck of cards. See the Triple B league ... Ace of Spades = xxx
Personally ... I'm not a huge fan of this concept. So since they aren't in the mood to print cards, I'd rather have a working handicap table.

Also by throwing in effects like Winds of Change and the Magic Weather Scroll ... you are getting some effects to kick in later in the game for tactical play.

Galak