Separate Chaos Teams

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:14 pm

The Chaos team is boring and no good at TR 100 anyway. There should be 2 "Chaos" teams: Beastmen and straight Chaos.

Beastmen

0-12 Beastmen  60k  6 3 3 8 Horns {GSPhys}
0-4  Ungors    70k  7 2 3 8 Dodge, Horns {GSPhys}
0-2  Blitzers  100k 6 3 3 9 Block, Horns {GSPhys}
0-1  Minotaur  110K 5 5 2 8 MBlow, Frenzy, Horns, Thick Skull, Always Hungry, Wild Animal, Big Guy, Throw Team-mate {GSPhys}

Re-rolls : 60k

Could replace the beastmen on the Chaos roster with Marauders (=Norse linemen). But that don't make the team any more interesting. Any ideas?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:34 pm

This concept was done back in 3ed and an article was printed in one of the Citedal Journals and it would up being reprinted in one of the BB Compendiums (#2 IIRC). Instead of blitzers that you have, they had beastigors. Don't know if those troop types exist anymore, maybe could be replaced with centigors. Anyway, I'm sure Galak's site has the article that you could read if you're interested.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:35 pm

That's an awfully cheap price for a blitzer with a 9 AV and Block/Horns.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:36 pm

Why 2 Big Guys???

David Bergkvist · Post by **David Bergkvist** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:33 pm

90k for a beastman blitzer is OK if 80k is OK for an orc blitzer since horns can only be used by one player per turn.

A possible chaos team:

Code: Select all

0-12 Cultist 50k  6 3 3 8 None {G,Ph}
0-4  Mutant  70k  6 3 3 8 Mutation {G,Ph}
0-4  Warrior 100k 5 4 3 9 None {G,S,Ph}

Mutation: When this player joins your team, he gets a free physical ability of your choice.

Before you say "but this is just better than the current team, i e unbalanced", please notice the lack of strength skills on the cultists and mutants.

Valen · Post by **Valen** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:36 pm

4 Claw dudes would be cool

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:46 pm

Torg wrote:This concept was done back in 3ed and an article was printed in one of the Citedal Journals and it would up being reprinted in one of the BB Compendiums (#2 IIRC). Instead of blitzers that you have, they had beastigors. Don't know if those troop types exist anymore, maybe could be replaced with centigors. Anyway, I'm sure Galak's site has the article that you could read if you're interested.

Yep, that was the starting point for this roster. Galak's site has a 1:1 reprinting of this 3e team for use in MBBL2.

Skummy wrote:That's an awfully cheap price for a blitzer with a 9 AV and Block/Horns.

David Bergkvist wrote:90k for a beastman blitzer is OK if 80k is OK for an orc blitzer since horns can only be used by one player per turn.

Exactly. Horns costs 1 point on the revised cost formula so 80k+10k=90k. Every single player on this team pays points for a skill that can only be used by one of them each turn.

narkotic wrote:Why 2 Big Guys???

The 3e team had 2, as back in the day every team had 2 BG access. Just a plain error on my part not to change it.

Dark Lord (retired) · Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:13 pm

The beastman team is doable and probably should have been done by now.

The other God-specific teams were about as balanced as Brettonnians.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:30 pm

Dark Lord wrote:The other God-specific teams were about as balanced as Brettonnians.

I'm not interested in god-specific chaos teams, just a less boring vanilla chaos team. 2 positions with (effectively) no skills between them?

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:21 am

Nazgit wrote:Exactly. Horns costs 1 point on the revised cost formula so 80k+10k=90k. Every single player on this team pays points for a skill that can only be used by one of them each turn.

You're forgetting that certain teams get price breaks on players, and that this guy has physical skill access. Check out http://home.earthlink.net/~agentrock/pdf/pcost.htm and you'll see that a 100,000 pricetag is right in line with this player. I don't think he should get a price break, since one of the team creation commandments is not to give any player with 4 strength block, and these guys effectively have that on offence.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:13 am

*gasps in surprise*

You mean there's a formula for working out the cost of players? Devised by JJ himself? Often known as "JJ's cost formula"? No sh*t sherlock!

I know that 100k is the formula's price for this player. I also know that most blitzers in the game get Block for 2 points instead of 3. That's ALL 6 blitzers in the starting teams (Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Dark Elf, Skaven & Orc) getting a 10k discount. This was my reasoning - not that flawed, I hope you'll agree.

I also wanted to balance out the heavy price the team has to pay for having Horns on every one of its lineman players - even though only one player can use it each turn.

But, I admit that the ST 4 + Phys access had not factored into my pricing. Given the nastiness this causes, I'll up the price to 100k and drop the re-roll cost to 60k to balance out the cost of Horns on so many players.

My blitzers are really quite tame. The 3e team had them at ST 4 base, plus Block and Horns!

Totally unnecessary.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:06 am

From experience in the original league I played in, the Beastman team from the magazines was brutually overpowered. I don't remember the exact stats, but two of them joined the league at the same time and quickly became league leaders in slaughter.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:29 am

Nazgit wrote:*gasps in surprise* You mean there's a formula for working out the cost of players? Devised by JJ himself? Often known as "JJ's cost formula"? No sh*t sherlock!

Well, thanks for agreeing eventually anyway... I think that playtesting would prove me right, but I always think that.

How about this reasoning? Why does 9 AV count as only a +1 modifier for the player's cost? Could it be that it is becasue this ruleset was written up in 3rd edition, when 9 armor was less useful because hurting skills were better?

DanielLaw · Post by **DanielLaw** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:26 am

David Bergkvist wrote: A possible chaos team:
Code: Select all
0-12 Cultist 50k  6 3 3 8 None {G,Ph}
0-4  Mutant  70k  6 3 3 8 Mutation {G,Ph}
0-4  Warrior 100k 5 4 3 9 None {G,S,Ph}
Mutation: When this player joins your team, he gets a free physical ability of your choice.

Mutants are cool but they should have their own roster! (Mutant Roster)

I'm all for a beastmen team - 100k blitzers and 60k re-rolls is a good place to start. I think it'd be nice to have 4 basic roster positions, so what about a centigor (as Torg suggested).

Code: Select all

0-2 Centigor  110k  7 3 2 9  Horns, Sprint, Sure Feet  {G,ST,PHY}

As they're a kinda beastman centuar, I feel they should be quicker than Bull Centuars, (more of a horse than a bull), but a little weaker (but still pretty mean with horns). They'd make quite a nice backfield safety/ball hunter...

gaijin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:40 pm

Hi all,
another way to do this is to let a Beastman team replace the old (outdated) Chaos team.
However, in order to avoid complaints like the ones that removing the old undead team generated, the new Chaos (beastman) team should be almost identical to the old Chaos team.

so - a beastman team:
0-16 Gor 60K 6338 horns G, ST, PH
0-4 Bestigor 100K 5438 horns g, ST, PH
+ Minotaur big guy

Basically, the only difference is that the "chaos warriors" gain horns but lose 1 AV.
This roster has worked quite well in my league. It is as balanced as the old team.

Martin