Hail mary pass and pass

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 7:37 pm

Hi all.
We had a small discussion some time ago.
Are you alloved to reroll a Hail mary pass with the pass skil if you roll a 1?

We were some people who are pretty sure that it is so, but were outvoted.

Poul

longfang · Post by **longfang** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 9:50 pm

Hail Mary pass is a bit of an exception to the normal passing rules to which pass applies. Good case for an argument, sorry, discussion though!
Haven't got any rule books here so I can't give you my "two penneth". If I know the pass skill it says you can re-roll a failed pass action, so if it came up in a game I'd probably say go for it.

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 3:09 am

Well it never came down to a fistfight

ScottTBBF · Post by **ScottTBBF** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:39 pm

Well,

Pass states: "A player with the Pass skill is allowed to re-roll the dice if he misses a pass."

And Hail Mary Pass states: "The player may throw the ball to any square on the playing field, no matter what the range; the range ruler is not used. On a roll of 1 the player fumbles the throw, and the ball will scatter once from the thrower’s square. On a roll of 2-6 the player may make the pass. The Hail Mary pass may not be intercepted, but it is never accurate – the ball automatically misses and scatters three squares. Note that if you are lucky the ball will scatter back into the target square! Also note that this skill is very useful when combined with the Diving Catch skill."

I would interpret a fumbled Hail Mary as a 'missed pass'; it makes good sense. This would mean that you are allowed to reroll failed HMPs.

christer · Post by **christer** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:18 pm

Another good question, which I've asked before but haven't seen any answer for, is if tz's modifies this die roll...

I would say that if pass-reroll is allowed, then tz's will affect...

-- Christer

Thetchyl · Post by **Thetchyl** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:28 pm

I wouldn't allow a pass re-roll on a hail mary pass, as it is always inaccurate anyway. Allowing a reroll makes a hail-mary- pass fumble every 36th time only, and this will render it significantly overpowered.

After all, the thrower just tries to get the ball away -no matter what- , so I don't think TZs should matter.

ScottTBBF · Post by **ScottTBBF** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:19 pm

Thetchyl wrote:Allowing a reroll makes a hail-mary- pass fumble every 36th time only, and this will render it significantly overpowered.

[sarcasm]Yeah, because Hail Mary Pass is already pretty powerful and almost unbalanced and this would put it over the top? [/sarcasm]

Seriously, you think it could be OVERPOWERED? IMHO, anyone trying to build a team around hail mary passing is not into powergaming, dude.

Basically, if you'd allow a team reroll (which you'd have to do), then you should also allow the skill reroll in this case...

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:41 pm

We allow a re-roll of it as it is a pass.
And I really dont believe that this skill is all that powerful, unless something extrodinary happens

Mumster · Post by **Mumster** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:36 pm

Why in the world, if you think about it, would there be no interception attempts on a Hail Mary Pass? I think more times than not a pass has been intercepted rather than caught on a Hail Mary Pass. Of course that is real football and this is not but oh well I'm just throwin that out there.

And another thing no matter how tough a Hail Mary Pass is to complete it has to be even harder with somebody in your face so I say TZs would matter, especially if you get a chance to reroll.

What do you think about that?

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:09 pm

Well the fact that the pass is harder is allready present because no matter what the pass fails and will most likely cause a turnover (ofcourse you can get lucky with the scattering and diving cath, but as a rule of thumb its a turnover and a loose ball.)
Further penalising the skill with the apliance of TZ would more or less make it worthless since a fumble is very criticall when you are trying to hail mary the ball (anybody who use the hmp as a sound tactic rather than a desperate gamble is probely loosing a lot of games.)

Poul

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:43 pm

Mumster wrote:Why in the world, if you think about it, would there be no interception attempts on a Hail Mary Pass?
?

What if opposing players could also use diving catch to get at the ball?
It could work.
It cant be intercepted mid flight, but when it comes down thats another story.

Mumster · Post by **Mumster** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:47 pm

But another thing

If it is treated as a pass(rerollable) shouldn't it come with all the neg points of a pass? Like interceptions and TZs? The difference being very balanced, you can put the ball in any square on the field(no ruler) but in turn it can be a turnover.

But if you have 5 players around the ball and the opponent has less, then who wins this one?

I'll bet I could get away with Hail Mary Pass 9 of 10 times with an elf team...of course that's just speculation.

Piepgrass · Post by **Piepgrass** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:48 pm

I like this idea as a house rule, but there would vbe some argument about who has the priority on diving after the ball. IF (and that is a big if) such a rule was added i would suggest that the throwers teammate has priority, if he is unwilling or unable to dive after the ball, the opposing coach is allowed to try.

Poul

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:49 pm

The fact that its also inaccurate is to represent the ability to pick it off.

Pass Block the catcher and you have a chance to snag it.

Galak

Mumster · Post by **Mumster** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:14 pm

good point Galak