Pile On

[Darkson]

I still like the idea of 1/2 ST, rounding up. Would limit it to +4 (for ST8 treemen ).

[Munkey]

I like the idea of capping it at +4 maximum (maybe +3) but i'm not sure if this is enough to be worth going prone for.

Most players will be +2 but MB allows +1 and can also affect the Inj without any need to go prone. I realise that the skills can combine but this may be reducing the effectioveness of PO too much.

Then again we call before the dice roll, perhaps +2 after the dice roll is a whole different thing, I have no experience with that.

[Gertwise]

Me myself, I like the idea of halving the STR and rounding up used before the die roll.

I think that an armor RR would be too weak and then nobody would take the skill at all.

At the very very least it should be changed to before the armor roll.

[Wonder]

A few figures :

Code: Select all

Armor   Normal  ST3  ST4  ST5   ST6    
6       58%     92%  97%  100%  100%    
7       42%     83%  92%  97%   100%    
8       28%     72%  83%  92%   97%    
9       17%     58%  72%  83%   92%    
10       8%      42%  58%  72%   83%    

Armor   Normal  reroll   mighty b  mb rrl  claws  claw rrl 
6       58%     83%      72%       92%     83%    97% 
7       42%     66%      58%       83%     72%    92% 
8       28%     48%      42%       66%     58%    83% 
9       17%     31%      28%       48%     42%    66% 
10       8%     16%      17%       31%     28%    48% 

That shows a reroll is between mighty blow and claws... not so good for ending prone.

My suggestions :
Piling On Armor Roll Bonus = STblocker - STvictim + 1

with a minimum of 0.
That makes a mighty blow at equivalent ST, and an interesting thing at higher ST diff.

and / or

Play it as diving catch. The player gets on its feet just after he falls.
That means the player will have to follow the opponent to use the skill and that he will be standing at the end of his action.
I would add that in that case, the block will end the player move (if used during a blitz).

[McDeth]

Me myself, I like the idea of halving the STR and rounding up used before the die roll.

I think that an armor RR would be too weak and then nobody would take the skill at all.

At the very very least it should be changed to before the armor roll.

Its not that th re-roll is too weak, its more that a Halfling can use the skill as effectively as a Mummy.

Solution : Make it a trait, declare before action, +3 to AV for ST5/6 and aboveplayers, +2 for ST4 and +1 for anything lower.

[Thetchyl]

I think forcing people to use it before the roll is enough-what bothered me about the skill so far is that it's too safe.
Also, making it a trait doesn't make sense( in terms of game-balance yes, in terms of realism no).

+3 to AV for ST5/6 and aboveplayers, +2 for ST4 and +1 for anything lower.

I like that, but do NOT make it a trait

[Wonder]

I like that, but do NOT make it a trait

Could you be playing a team that has no access to ST skills ?

Like elves, you know : only a double can give you a ST skill, and Trait are out of range...

[Thetchyl]

hehe,I tend to not base my judgement on the current team I'm playing, but on the general game-balance. I do play both sides- strength (dwarves) and elves-

Piling on is not the skill you'd want for an elf anyway- I just do not like overpowered skills to be reduced to useless skills- Just make them balanced.

One thing is certain, however- it has to be changed!![/quote]

[Circular_Logic]

PO should not be overnerfed.
I would not go prone for anything less then 3+. On any normal player it´s just nice, on a norse blitzer it´s very nice, and only on bigguys it´s sick.
So a simple thing would be the combination of capping it at 4+ and chosing before the armorroll.
If you want something ST-related I would suggest ST/2 (rounded up) +1. This would limit the "normal" player of ST 3 and 4 to a 3+bonus, a 4+ for all bigguys and gives a 5+ to all those sick ones (+ST treeman)

[Munkey]

I like that, but do NOT make it a trait

Could you be playing a team that has no access to ST skills ?

Like elves, you know : only a double can give you a ST skill, and Trait are out of range...

Or it could just be that if we make every skill that anyone thinks may be a little too powerful a trait as always seems to be suggested we won't end up with any basic skills left.

[Munkey]

PO should not be overnerfed.
I would not go prone for anything less then 3+. On any normal player it´s just nice, on a norse blitzer it´s very nice, and only on bigguys it´s sick.
So a simple thing would be the combination of capping it at 4+ and chosing before the armorroll.
If you want something ST-related I would suggest ST/2 (rounded up) +1. This would limit the "normal" player of ST 3 and 4 to a 3+bonus, a 4+ for all bigguys and gives a 5+ to all those sick ones (+ST treeman)

I couldn't agree more, we already play (or should I say still play) call before the roll so the only problems we're starting to see are PO on ST 5 players when the AV break is almost a formality.

Many of the suggestions begin to tone it down to a +2 level where I'd be thinking about taking something else as this is not worth going prone for.

I'm not seeing masses of ST 3 players (only the Norse) taking the skill or even huge amounts of ST4 at the moment so I think only the +5 is really causing the problem.

I think the ST/2 +1 idea is the best so far as it knocks the skill down a peg without completely stuffing it so long as it's combined with declare first.

[Blammaham]

After reading the posts I love the idea of +.5 of strength to armor rounding up and I can still see it being a foul even, but I don't think that it fits in with the spirt of a trait. Also I've always played that you must declare before the roll. Somthing must be done, if you don't take piling on with your big guy you are at a serious disadvantage.S.[/code]

[grotemuis]

just make it +3 and before the roll, still interesting enough, not too good for big guys

[plasmoid]

We've just had a full season (approx 850 games) with the old PO - i.e. use before the roll.
The skill was still extremely powerful for big guys, but for ST3 teams it quite often put the attacking team in a worse position than the defenders.

Ofcourse, one way to avoid this would be for these teams to stop using PO entirely, but with reduced mighty blow and no rerolls on armor injury, you need something besides mighty blow to make an impact.

So, IMO, piling on should be after the roll - but with a reduction to the bonus.

My favourite is +3 for big players (ST4+) and +2 for everyone else.
Martin

[MickeX]

So, IMO, piling on should be after the roll - but with a reduction to the bonus.

My favourite is +3 for big players (ST4+) and +2 for everyone else.
Martin

To make it more LRB:esque, I still like making it +3 if your ST is higher than opponents, otherwise +2.

ST is normally used in comparison to opponent in the current BB rules.

MickeX