GW's Triple B League --- TBB WE NEED YOUR VOTES!!!

[neoliminal]

Unfortunately to make a change to the handicap system will require blood.

[GalakStarscraper]

Unfortunately to make a change to the handicap system will require blood.

You have to be kidding me right??? .... An overwhelming majority on TBB have agreed that the MBBL handicap table or the CHUBB table is all that needs to happen and have been on their knees requesting it (at least several that I've seen have). You don't need to dump and redo the system Neo ... tweaks my friend ... tweaks.

Galak

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Why? Milo made a really nice handicap system up. Where is the testing at on that?


Galak- Where is this handicap system...nevermind...I know.

Okay, yeah, I like the CHUBBY table!

[GalakStarscraper]

Why? Milo made a really nice handicap system up. Where is the testing at on that?


Galak- Where is this handicap system...nevermind...I know.

Okay, yeah, I like the CHUBBY table!

For those few that haven't seen it or cannot exactly remember them:

The MBBL handicap table revised by Chet:
http://blood-bowl.net/MBBL/MBBLHandicap.html

Milo's CHUBB handicap table:
http://www.chubbleague.com/chubb/handicap.html

Personally, I think Milo's system is the better of the two, but the MBBL table has proved effective in testing in its simplicity. Either one would have the desired outcome.

Galak

[Darkson]

I've just realised that the MBBL table has lost the underdogs favourite, "Virus". Was the intentional?

[GalakStarscraper]

I've just realised that the MBBL table has lost the underdogs favourite, "Virus". Was the intentional?

Its too powerful of a handicap roll to be on a simple table.

TR 210 playing TR 225 should not be able to VIRUS out the TR 225 niggled players.

This is why I like Milo's system better. Yeah, its a bit more complex, but it really accomplishes what the handicap system should accomplish. Scaled handicapping.

I know the community like the CHUBB system ... just not sure if the BBRC 6 outside of Milo are willing to like it.

Galak

[Thadrin]

Unfortunately to make a change to the handicap system will require blood.

I hope that wink means "Yes we ARE changing the handicap system".
There are two systems out there - as stated, which have been worked on by BBRC members. I don't care which is used - either is better than the current table.

Or are the BBRC just going to ignore what the players actually want, push their own ideas, and generally agree to anything Andy and Jervis try to foist on us?

[GalakStarscraper]

Or are the BBRC just going to ignore what the players actually want, push their own ideas, and generally agree to anything Andy and Jervis try to foist on us?

Not fair yet, Thadrin. So far nothing that was strongly opposed before the review has ever been voted into the rules by the BBRC. If it had, I'd give you some more leeway, but they really don't deserve that comment.

Look guys ... seriously ... stop the BBRC bashing. Neo the only member of the BBRC still willing to visit and post here. I'd appreciate not running him off as well.

Galak

[sean newboy]

Hear hear! This isnt werewolf, lets give them a chance. Dont forget the things we have disliked from the bbrc have been promoted by just a few. Chet for one put up with a lot of grief b4 he left, even tho his big idea had definate merit as far as alot here believed.

[Azurus]

Ok, seems like a good place to put my first post....

1)No
The change from 11 to 16 for the 2nd skill had moved things to where they needed to be. I've just looked at my most advanced team on FUMBBL (36 games), and with these rules only 6 players would have more than one skill. This seems far too much effort for too little reward.

2)Undecided
Fine with it either way.

3)No
I kinda like the IGMEOY now that I've gotten used to it.

4)No
Purely for fluff reasons, I LIKE my stars to age, it gives the team a sense of history, as well as keeping the team feeling fresh by letting the newer players move through.

5)No
These tables are way too harsh, especially with the veterans at 150 TR. A lot of teams get that far in 5 or 6 games. Combined with the new SPP table, these teams will have barely any skills either.

6)Yes
Either have it as a reroll, or make it a trait. The old rules are ok as long as it's a rare skill, which right now it isn't.

7)No
This will hit teams far too early in their careers, escpecially when combined with 8

8)Undecided
On it's own, would work, but with all this other stuff, it's just way too harsh.

Overall, I don't like these rules. If the goal was to simplify it, then it would probably work, since no team would ever become a 'strong team' (in the way people think of it now), and there would be very few stars around. But they've lost the fun.

I'm not against uber-teams, as long as they have had to play a lot of games to get there. It's rare any team gets past 300 TR anyway. (even on FUMBBL,where there are several 100+ game teams and lots of 50 game teams). They're hitting the big teams when it truly isn't necessary. They should leave each league to use their own methods to protect the little guys (divisions/whatever). I've never seen a league which doesn't have something to do this.

Damn all this typing is tiring

[Dark Lord (retired)]

I don't know if I voted yet..oh well. I'm not searching for it.

1 ) Advanced SPP table
No, absolutely not.

2 ) No injury mods change
No, this is only going to make ageing and other band aids more necessary. I cannot fathom how they don't see the connection.

3 ) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
No...I propose a Referee system that encompasses secret weapons and fouls all into one system. Make fouling and weapons work in the same rules so the Referee Roll is just exactly that.

4 ) No more aging
YES!!!

5 ) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
No. Milo's table is the direction to go.

6 ) Piling On changed to AV reroll
No. Just put it back to the way it was WHEN IT WORKED!

7 ) New winnings table 15k bands
No.

8 ) Negative winnings rules
Yes.

[Sceadeau]

1) Advanced SPP table
2) No injury mods
3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling ... however no more IGMEOY or Referee roll.
4) No more aging
5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6) Piling On changed
7) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

---

I've tried to keep an open mind and look at the changes as a whole before disecting them. The biggest problem I see with all of these changes combined is not only a lowering of the cap (looks to be around 150-200), but making teams with those TR effectively tr 130-150 TR now.

So the combined changes all together bring us to a very "stock" level of skill sets. Where you almost always pick skill x first, then skill y, and that's all of the diversity you will really get out of a player. Teams become less individualized under a system like that, and I really like building flavor into my teams.

That said, on to the numbers:

1) No. Leave us SPP where we actually get to advance our men. If i wanted to do something for a long time for no reward, i'd go get a job.

2) Yes. I think this change is neccessary for health of a long standing league, and overall health of bloodbowl in general. If i showed up at a shop today, and they had a league that had been going on for 2 years...my first game would involve me losing a lot and probably losing a lot of players. Whee. No new BB fan here. Stacking the AV bonuses allows for more advanced players to plan strategies around stunned men. I like it.

3) Yes. Change for simplicities sake. I like the new more complex rules, however, i'm not married to them. By removing the damage modifiers, and the initial modifier to AV from fouling, they can afford to lighten up on how often you get caught fouling. They are looking for a game where players take risks to remove someone from the pitch at the expense of their own guys. The lessening of the SI table means they can have more fouls without teams being destroyed by fouling. They might lose the game, but that's all we were really looking for anyway. I never felt good permanently maiming an opposing player just because i needed to tactically foul.

4) Yes. Although, it _is_ still in there, but under the guise of random type event. I liked the flavor of aging and the game balance aspect of aging, but not the implementation. Skilling up shouldn't be something you dread. I wonder though if the removal of aging has anything to do with so many less skill rolls per player making in ineffectual.

5) Yes. And putting yes to that really pains me. I don't like most of it in general, but in principle, I believe it will actually help the game out. Secret cards bother me, and some results bother me. Overall though, it's not a bad direction to take.

6) Yes. Best version of Piling On to date. A lot of people think we should go back to old piling on (always lay down) because "it wasn't broken back then"...i disagree. I think it was broken back then, but we just didn't realize it. Also, there were no big guys to give it to, all the big guys were Star Players who had already choosen their skills. If just one of them started with PO, i think we would've realized sooner how bad it was.

7) No. This needs to be reworked to up the cap. This ties in a lot with how I feel about number 1.

Yes. However, as they stand now, the penalties are too harsh. I would like to see the table they're using atm get adjusted to raise the cap.

[Stout Youngblood]

NO 1) Advanced SPP table
NO 2) No injury mods Like the simplicity but think Sigurds is better
YES 3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling ... however no more IGMEOY or Referee roll. I would like more fouling to be available but not the way they are fixing it.
NO 4) No more aging I like the aging rules, adds flavorNO 5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR I like the either of the two tables proposed by TBB
YES 6) Piling On changed Best change so far...
NO 7) New winnings table 15k bands
YES 8 ) Negative winnings rules Like the idea not the execution
[/b]

[GalakStarscraper]

Hey ... where's Anthony_TBBF and Deathwing's 2 cents and 2 pence on this one respectively.

Galak

[Dave]

haven't seen them round for a while (week) or so ... vacation ???