GW's Triple B League --- TBB WE NEED YOUR VOTES!!!

[Munkey]

It's nice to see members of the BBRC and Fanatic taking time to read the discussion here, makes it feel like our opinions are being considered which is definately a step in the right direction for everyone.

We get the game we want and Fanatic gets a game which sells.

As much as we criticise Jervis at times he did also create the game that we all love and it must be difficult to hand over even partial control of his creation to other people regardless of how well they will look after it.

I am reassured to hear that these changes will not be made without a good level of playtesting.

One thing that concerns me is the playtesting available. As I see it a final playtesting stage is the release of rules as experimental for them to be tried out in many leagues.

All the experimental rules so far though have been add-ons to the game like new teams or kicking rules. I think it will be hard to implement something as large scale as the no inj mods rule as experimental for the wide ranging testing that this sort of change will need.

[Sixpack595]

1) Advanced SPP table
2) No injury mods
3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling ... however no more IGMEOY or Referee roll.
4) No more aging
5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6) Piling On changed
7) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

1) Don't like it. It makes Chaos and other low/no starting skill teams less fun to play. Add in revised winnings and by the time the team has some fun skills they can't afford to keep the players or grow.

2) Not really, I liked injury mods in 3rd. More deaths = more fun, but I realise some people didn't like it. No biggie I vote no, but I can live with it. At least boxcars means the guy is dead dead.

3) No opinion except that I want to see SPPs back for fouling. Do what you need to but put them back.

4) Finnaly, the rule sucked from day one. By far the best change to the game.

5) I'd rather see the cards brought back, but this is at least closer. Needs more thought so I reserve judgement.

6) No Way. Change it back to declare before the armor roll. WTF does a gobbo falling on you hurt as much as a frigging treeman? Lets be honest here, it just doesn't make sense.

7) Maybe on its own, but add in some of the other stuff and it can cripple teams.

8 ) See #7.

The more people screw around with the rules the more I like 3rd ed.

[BlanchPrez]

1) Advanced SPP table
2) No injury mods
3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling ... however no more IGMEOY or Referee roll.
4) No more aging
5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6) Piling On changed
7) New winnings table 15k bands
Negative winnings rules

Okay, just to get my two cents in here. I haven't had much chance to really read through these, and some will need playtesting before I can truly comment, but here I go.

1) Don't like this. I like having at least one player advance at the end of a game. Not advancing makes me feel like I had a horrible game.
2) First gut feeling, don't like it. Have to see how it play tests first, though.
3) Not sure about this one. I like IGMEOY, but then, my league doesn't foul for the sake of fouling either.
4) Kinda ambiguious on this. I never had a problem with the aging rules, but again, none of my teams have ever reached higher than 200 TR.
5) I like the looks of the new tables they have. First gut feeling is yes, keep, but again, will need to see how they play test.
6) Again, not sure about this one. I've never used Piling On, but this seems like a good change to the skill.
7) Not sure I like the new winnings table. I think it was fine just the way it was. However, part of the reason I don like it is because of...
Don't like this one. I'm not fond of forcing someone to give up rerolls, especially considering how costly they get after set up, or even giving up players. I liked the aging system to do this better, personally.

Chris

[GalakStarscraper]

i want a pop up rulebook where you turn the page and people stand up in cool action poses!

In this of all the debate (catching up I am) ... this one killed me ... thanks a ton grumble.

galak

[GalakStarscraper]

its seems people are taking the negative winnings in combination with the new winnings table

indeed if you do use it with the new table it is way to harsh imho but if you use it with the current table it looks to work out really well even verging on the softer side

I've noticed this also Grumble. Even with that the voting is mostly for the system. I guess its a lot of work to think about the negative wins system with the current cash table ...

Galak

[Grumbledook]

heh being a bum all day i get plenty of thinking time, maybe i should start making a pop up rulebook for you ;]

[GalakStarscraper]

Finally having read through everything.

I will get an update on the polling posted either today or tomorrow.

thanks Andy for dropping by.

And Neo/Andy/ anyone else ... the only point I'd like to add is that while things like the no injury mods streamline the game .. Thrads is right they will fundamentaly change the game. I think Halflings which are my race were looking at a 20% increase in Stuns vs Prone from a Pow result with this system ... holy crap! ... you don't think that changes how well I can play the team.

At the end of the day, I've gone back through again and read everything twice.

I think the CURRENT LRB rules are WONDERFUL. I enjoy the game. Out of the Bugman's stuff and the voting I see the following being repeated:

1) Throughly go through every item on the Hot List this year. Its a collection of the TBB thoughts. Last year, the BBRC concentrated mostly on FAQ ... use the whole thing if you want to improve the game. I think a lot more is done if the LRB is clear and easy to understand than a massive rule change to remove the Sigard's roll.

2) The Handicap system is an okay system. Just make the table work. Change the table to either Milo's or the MBBL's and it will function a lot better.

3) While it has some no votes (some very strong (ie Dangerous Dave ... by the way Dave this change is all your Khemri mummies fault you know that right .. ), the Piling On AV reroll change seems to be a good way to go.

4) If you want to add another TR slower, then go back to the negative winnings rules from the pre-LRB 1.0 testing. The rules for Bugman's are fine. Teams are only going to end up in this situation of losing rerolls and then players with poor team management. Team Management requirements is a good thing. I think adding in the negative winnings rules would go a long way to reducing extra cash for higher TR teams also.

Like a lot of the folks here ... I think the Hot List has a lot more of what needs to be being looked at than the Bugman's test rules. And yes, I run the Hot List, but I seen a lot of posts over the last 5 days, saying look at the Hot List for BB's needs not massive rule changes.

Tweaks not sweeps ... the more that happens the more I agree with this.

Galak

[Thadrin]

its seems people are taking the negative winnings in combination with the new winnings table

indeed if you do use it with the new table it is way to harsh imho but if you use it with the current table it looks to work out really well even verging on the softer side

I've noticed this also Grumble. Even with that the voting is mostly for the system. I guess its a lot of work to think about the negative wins system with the current cash table ...

Galak

It was the negative income idea I liked...if its the old or a new table doesn't really bother me that much. I think the lower level teams get about the right amount of money...its only when the TRR plateau we've been talking about is reached that I've started feeling like I have more than I need...but I haven't had a death on my team for a while.

[Xtreme]

Tweaks not sweeps ... the more that happens the more I agree with this.

Couldn't have said it better. I have heard many people say that the LRB is the best ruleset that BloodBowl has ever had, and I agree with them. The worst thing that could happen at this point is a major overhaul.

[BlanchPrez]

Tweaks not sweeps ... the more that happens the more I agree with this.

Couldn't have said it better. I have heard many people say that the LRB is the best ruleset that BloodBowl has ever had, and I agree with them.

Ditto.

Chris

[Mirascael]

Negative Income:

Possibly the best of the new rules. About time this was introduced. Much better than any sort of "ageing".

New tables:

Possibly the worst of the new rules. Too many random effects, much better tables have been developed. And ageing is hidden inside them. Sucky!

New SPP-table:

I like it, I'd suggest a 6th skill at 300 SPPs though.

New winning table:

Now that's overkill! With slower skill progression and negative income there's no need for a new winnings table.

No more ageing:

Theoretically a good idea, but the same old "ageing" is hidden in these silly new tables.

Piling On changed:

Good one. Was about time to change this skill. What about Diving Tackle though?

7. New fouling rules:

Don't like this doubles-rule. Seems akward to me.

8. No more injury modifiers:

Tough call. With this new rule a natural 12 should always result in a death, no matter what. And apoth should be changed insofar, that a successfully treated player is placed in the reserve box of the dug-out and doesn't remain on the pitch.

[Arkeo]

1) Advanced SPP table
2) No injury mods
3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling ... however no more IGMEOY or Referee roll.
4) No more aging
5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6) Piling On changed
7) New winnings table 15k bands
Negative winnings rules

If it isn´t to late here is my votes and thougts!

1) No. I don´t like it at all. Fast progress of the team is one of the basething in the game.
2) Undecided. It is never fun to kill your opponents players (except that bloody Gutter Runner who just scored on you), but maybe it slows up the skillprogress.
3) Yes. This would be good for the game. IGMEOY is to powerful IMO and have made one important flavour for this game less frequent. And yes to go back to penalty when you roll a double. If the fouling would be abused again I have a suggestion of a house rule we used in my old leauge (played with 3rd ed rules). When a player got sent off for the match, in the next kick-off his team could only set up 10 players on the pitch. It´s more like football (soccer) rules. In our leauge it damped the fouling.
4) Undecided. Haven´t played LRB rules for so long to have a opinion of it, but my gut says yes to take it away.
5) Undecided. Some handicap-system is needed for sure, if it is a modified LRB-handicap table or these used in BBB-Leauge I can´t tell. I have always felt that the old cards was to powerful. If you were lucky, you could get 1 or 2 TD without any effort. So that isn´t an option IMO.
6) Yes. It´s to powerful today!
7) No. No change is needed IMHO.
Yes. Why not, I don´t think it would change so much. But maybe it can slow the progress of the high TR teams.

Result: 3 YES 3 Undecided 2 NO

[Darkson]

My votes:-

1: No, no,, no, etc.
2: No
3: No
4: Yes
5: No, but the current Handicap table needs re-working
6: No - yes, it needs changing, but not to this
7: No
8: No

So 1 Yes, 7 No's (2 with privisios)

[Dangerous Dave]

Galak wrote

3) While it has some no votes (some very strong (ie Dangerous Dave ... by the way Dave this change is all your Khemri mummies fault you know that right .. ), the Piling On AV reroll change seems to be a good way to go.

I know! - and to prove that Piling On was broken was the only reason I took the Khemri team on - circa 45 to 50 cas in 9 games (the reason this is estimated is that the first season they played as undead and the cas rate was much lower) seems to have proved my point!

Although I have already said it, I will repeat for the last (?) time - changing the skill so that a fling and a BOB / Chaos Warrior all have the same impact is ridiculous - it also means that very few big guys will take the skill - I know none of my mummies would ever take it if it was an av reroll - c'mon why should a 2 stone fling fluttering down like a feather have the same impact as a ton of rotting flesh crashing down through your armour?


Dave

[Grumbledook]

you could make it a st3 requirement

and there is more to piling on than just being big, you can pile on fists first or whatever