GW's Triple B League --- TBB WE NEED YOUR VOTES!!!

[Xtreme]

1 No NO NO
2 No reason to change this. Leave it alone
3 No thanks
4 wouldn't mind seeing aging tweaked but I do want some aging. So I guess NO
5 I want a new handicap table but there should always be one. so NO
6YES YES YES something I like.
7 NO
8 Yes this would be nice.

[GalakStarscraper]

Okay I'll comment at this point with 25 votes in I'd be fine with the LRB 2.0 rules if the Hot List gets seriously addressed this year.

I'm surprised to see the support for aging. I had removed it from the MBBL and MBBL2, but if folks are okay with aging, I can live with it to be honest. Maybe folks have warmed up to it after playing with those rules for a while.

The two changes folks are in favor of ....
a) Piling On becoming an AV reroll that I'm pretty happy with. I agree with Dangerous Dave about a Black Orc doing more damage than a Halfing ... but the Halfling needed doubles and he doesn't have access Mighty Blow which works with Piling On. ... so I'll choose to be okay with this change in interest of game balance AND keeping Piling On a skill ... we don't need more strength traits.

b) Changing the winning mods so that if you have negative winnings and don't have cash to cover it you lose a team reroll and if you have no rerolls you retire a player of your choice. I'm perfectly happy with this also. I liked in when I tested the LRB 1.0 rules and I still like it.

Throw in either Milo's 3 table handicap or Chet's MBBL handicap table which improve the handicap table to a level that works along with a serious discussion of the entire Hot List (not just the clarifications), and I think I'd be pretty darn happy with the game.

By the way guys ... we NEED MORE VOTES ... we NEED AT LEAST as many votes as Bugman's has players folks ... come one there are a LOT of you on TBB please take the time to read over the Bugman's PDF, think about the rules, and vote.

Galak

[Mestari]

Ok, I didn't read through everyones posts, my opinions on these are pretty much set already.

I do consider this ruleset to be an alarming signal that this ship is heading to a direction that I definitely do not like. There is a limit where simplification makes the game less interesting, and this suggestion (as a whole) is crossing the border and heading straight to the dark side.

Vote Yes/Undecided/No for the Bugman's rule changes
1) Advanced SPP table
2) No injury mods change
3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
4) No more aging
5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6) Piling On changed to AV reroll
7) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

1) No - no need to repeat previous justifications.
2) No - my stance on this was formed during the New Idea (Big)-discussion. I simply dislike this direction due to its effects on the game.
3) No - some tweaks required (I'd prefer no assists, DP as it is, no IGMEOY, eject on doubles)
4) No - I've grown to like the aging system.
5) No - there are better systems (the one where you could "buy" rolls from the different handicap tables using TR difference as currency was a favourite of mine - IIRC it was Milos suggestion)
6) Undecided - well, better than the current rules at least.
7) No - The direction concerning the income system was right, but if you keep going at the right direction with the same speed, you might miss the right spot. The right spot is the current rules and this is going way off the mark.
8 ) No - I prefer to see different solutions for removing RR's etc. I simply don't like this.

[Mestari]

Ok, never said I'm not conservative, but I believe I have good reasons for voting against these.
I do like to see new rules and changes, and I've seen many which I have liked, but somehow they managed to compile those rules that I don't like to this list.

I'm not saying that their rules are necessarily bad, I'm saying that their vision of where the game should go is definitely different to mine.

[sean newboy]

One note on Aging, i dont like the advance based aging, but i do like aging in general. I still prefer the exp point aging system.

[Toby]

I just downloaded the PDF and I like it. I like it a lot.

I have some minor ideas but in general, I like it.

1. They should include the new secret weapon rules to their playtesting league.
2. They should remove all Secret Weapon and Big Guy Star Players.
3. Winnings should be a D8 Roll.
4. Players should peak at 151 SPP, so the do not inflate the Teamrating any further from this point.

[neoliminal]

This is a coach view of these items...

Vote Yes/Undecided/No for the Bugman's rule changes
1) Advanced SPP table
2) No injury mods change
3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
4) No more aging
5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6) Piling On changed to AV reroll
7) New winnings table 15k bands
8) Negative winnings rules.

1. I don't like the limits put here. I'd rather see a team able to get a one star player, and be pretty limited otherwise, but that's a hard mechanic to create. (No)

2. I like the very clean nature of not having injury mods. You can control all chance of injury just fine with modifiers to the armour roll. (Yes)

3. At first I didn't like this, but after seeing the results and playing the the numbers, it's actually a fine system for fouling. I like the Ref Roll, but unless there's a way to unify the Ref tests (secret weapons, fouling checks, argue the calls...) I don't mind getting rid of it. (Yes)

4. I don't mind ageing, but I don't think the BBB league will have enough games in to actually test the results of eliminating it. (Undecided)

5. Feel like change for changes sake. Haven't played with it to know how I feel yet. (Undecided)

6. Love this rule. But that's probably because I championed it. (Yes)

7. The winnings table needs an overhaul. It's really a matter of where you think the high end of teams should be. Personall I think it needs to be short of 200 TR, so this table does that well enough. (Yes.)

8. Very happy with this rule. It was first proposed back when negative winnings were suggested and the BBRC didn't include it for various reasons. I love it. (Yes)

John -

[Xeterog]

1 ) Advanced SPP table
2 ) No injury mods change
3 ) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
4 ) No more aging
5 ) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6 ) Piling On changed to AV reroll
7 ) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

1) NO! It's hard enough to advance some players as it is now.
2) Yes. I like this change, alot. Without mods to injury rolls, sigurd's is not needed.
3) No more +1 to AV for fouling: Yes
Remove IGMEOY and eject on doubles: NO
DP for AV only: Yes
4) No. I like the ageing rules as they are
5) Haven't got to use the handicap table in FUMBBL..no real opion. I did like the cards.
6) YES! Please..this skill has been broken for a long time now (even before IGMEOY in my opinion)
7) No
Yes

[WildAnimal]

GOODDAY ELF BOWL!!!!!

Are they Crazy???

What are they thinking? the new test rules are really bad, only thing they done better is the Piling on skill.

Back to double on fouls, and no +1 for fouling, the double thingy is bad, the no +1 is ok, i think.

Dirty player: weak skill now, will never take it, to high risk of being ejected now on a double.

Mighty blow: to weak, can a ST5 Ogre not hit harder then a human now?

PO: go back to the pre-LRB way of doing it.

RSC or fangs: PAH!! Chaos teams are useless now.

Stunty: Weird way of doing it: why just not lower there AV on the roster then? but like that stunty player are better now.

Match Winning: Crazy stuff! Teams like chaos with no skills to start with and high RR cost are doomed! they have problem getting skills from the first start. try replacing a 70,000gcs reroll.....

Ageing are vanished: GREAT!

Injury table: WHAT!!! Sigurd's are great! No stat mod or Nigglers anymore?

Star player points: only 5 skills now? those non-skill teams have a problem now! And the good mutations suck now, chaos you are out!
you have to have 10 SPP for first skill, chaos and lizardsmen are very weak now.

Match Winnings table, the old system was 110% better.

The Handicap thingy: To much PEAKED result for my behalf, its that there are resulst who can peak your team, its to dangerous to play games where the opponent can roll on these tables, i will surely never play a worse team anymore, if he rolls on of those result where my players peak, my team is ruined, look at that result where you have to rolls for each player on a 1 they are peaked, on a 12 man team, that 2 peaked players...

GOODBUY AGILITY BOWL.
But dwarf are good now, they start with high AV and cheap RR's and lots of starting skills.

[WildAnimal]

Hi

If these new rules are going to be official, then it goes from my favorite game to a game i don't wanna waste my time on!

If nuffle's says that this is the new way to play blood bowl, then nuffle really sucks.

I think the BBRC must have smoked crack! Why not call it agility ball now.
Bashing teams are getting to have problems, and the new handicap system are surely unbalaced, 16,6% of your teams peak.

To Galak, this is my vote.
ALL NO! except that PO should be changed back to pre-LRB

[Indigo]

1) Advanced SPP table
No
2) No injury mods change
No
3) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
No
4) No more aging
Undecided
5) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
Undecided
6) Piling On changed to AV reroll
Yes
7) New winnings table 15k bands
Undecided
Negative winnings rules
Yes

[Thadrin]

I'd just like to add some emphasis... I could care less about number 3 onwards.

HOWEVER

If either number 1 or number 2 get through I'm quitting the game. I think these are insane changes, severely limiting the strength teams.

Neo has come out in public now in favour of insanity number 2. This means that, seeing as it was Chet's idea in the first place and that Andy and Jervis seem to think its a good idea we - PROBABLY - already have 4 members of the BBRC in favour of it.

Lets just give up now shall we?

[Bevan]

1. Advanced SPP table
No. In the short series I always play in, faster advancement would be better than slower.

2. No injury mods
Abstain. I can see the reasons for this but if we made this change I can bet someone would later have fators affecting the injury and we'd back there without Sigurd's roll.

3. Changes to fouling
No. I really like IGMEOY. It allows both teams to foul every turn if they want but you can protect your team by not retaliating.

4. No aging
Abstain. Aging is bad for our short leagues bu I don't like the otehr changes that have replaced it here.

5. Handicap tables
No. The handicap table needed tweaking, but these changes are just useles at providing sensible handicaps.

6. Piling On change
Abstain. I prefer maing it a trait, but I'm a happy enough about any chaneg that reduces its over-use.

7. Winnings table 15k bands.
No. You should be able to get to 200TR without ridiculous -ve modifiers.

8. Negative winnings
No. Not they way it's written. If you were able to hand back a RR at book value (i.e. half what you paid for it) and sell players at half price then it might work, but not just losing a 70k RR or 70k player when you are 10k short of funds. At least if you got some cash for your RR you could avoid it happening several games in a row (and yes I know your TR will drop each time).


I'm quite happy with the LRB, subject to the fixes on Galak's list.

[Mestari]

I read through the new idea -posts to refresh my memory.

Check them out here.
Original thread

Second thread

The fact remains:
The original intention of the no-inj mods etc. was a good one: less complexity etc. and it must've been real easy to sell that idea to the Fanatic for that reason. But it seems clear to me and many others that this simplicity doesn't come without a price. The price is a worse game.

Amount of stuns increases dramatically, while the ST skills are seriously downgraded (MB causes 31% less injuries under this system, while MB+POn is only about as good as the old MB alone!!!).

If you're interested, browse through the two threads above and notice that the main concerns about the suggestions of this kind have not been answered.

[WildAnimal]

Like Thadrin says.

if 1 and 2 gets a yes, i'm thinking of quiting the game, then its all agility ball, in the league i play in, there are equal amount (maybe more agiligty) og agility and bashing teams, even the hardcore elf players, thing that 1+2 would damage the game, and make bashing teams with few starting skills, not worthy playing.

i really think that if they say yes to 1+2, the BBRC/Fanatic/who else are making money on the game, are going to have a problem, there are simply to many gamers who like bashing!, and that you can't get SI's like nigglers and - in stats, seems to be a simplyfication of the game, the next step will be making it a game for 8 year olds.

so of 1+2 gets a yes, then i have to say farewell.