Rat Ogre, agility

[Asperon Thorn]

This topic has now split into two, so here goes.

Zombie:

If you are claiming that MA 7 Linerats have trouble getting SPPs just because you have better scorers on the team, then that is an issue of poor management. This can be equated to a WE team that allows for thier Wardancers to pull the team along untill there is no support for them. Use the MA 7, get them block.

Skummy and Ian:

The original statement was:

Hell I'd give him the ball on offense if I was playing a team that would have trouble breaking players free for the assists.

I would stress the "IF I was playing. . ." If there was a possibility for either of the above scenarios, that you two graciously illustrated, then I don't think that would qualify, and hence a more conventional offensive approach would be played out. I read that as either:

A: the opposition is two slow to get in a WA abusing position.

B. The team is now Undermanned, and can no longer hope to get into that position.

C. The team is also AV 7, in which 6 turns to score wouldn't be a bad thing. (against either WE's or HE's I may want to switch to a slow bashy offense. (Not stalling for you nitpickers))

We, of course, are also missing the Defensive Aspect of an AG4 RO. Assuming that a player is trying to force the RO to go in the wrong direction and has put someone next to him, The RO now has the option of Blitzing, Moving through a tacklezone to put himself near a Reciever or Ball Carrier. With Prehensile Tail, being next to a Ball Carrier is almost as good as hitting him.

[DoubleSkulls]

We're talking about an AG 4 WA and not for nuttin but my Mino was my top scorer in my table top Norse team and he had AG 2 before getting break tackle!
It's very easily possible.

Then you are very probably playing against muppets.

[Boss]

OOOOOOOOO
OXOOXOOXO
OOOOOOOOO
OOOOBOOOO
OOOOXOOOO
OOOOOOOOO

X = linepud
B = Rat Ogre with ball
O = empty space

I think this is what Ian is talking about. The Rat Ogre doesn't have much of a chance to move the ball up field, since he has to move back once or twice, and then can't get through or around the line.

ah, see I was under the assumption that the Rat Ogre was not on his own trying to run the entire length of the field with no assistance ...

Seriously ... if the poor rat ogre has a couple of guys covering his ass, it could be a viable option. As I said ... not as a "main" plan - but for special situations ... who knows. Regardless, AG 4 would make him an even more dangerous blitzer if he can stay away from one of those dreaded "linepuds-with-a-deathwish"

[sean newboy]

I would be embarrassed if i let that situation happen to me on a more rare occasion.

[Skummy]

ah, see I was under the assumption that the Rat Ogre was not on his own trying to run the entire length of the field with no assistance ...

Boss, the illustration was necessarily a simplification. Doing one of the whole field with a realistic 8 man Skaven roster versus an 11 Orc team would be time consuming and more difficult to parse. Besides, all you have to do is put two tackle zones on the RO, side by side and I've forced to to take a 1 in 6 chance of losing the rest of your team turn. Not too shabby.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

We're talking about an AG 4 WA and not for nuttin but my Mino was my top scorer in my table top Norse team and he had AG 2 before getting break tackle!
It's very easily possible.

Then you are very probably playing against muppets.

Hmmn. Don't recall seeing you or anyone from Zombie's league across the table.

[Camus]

I'd avoid usin my Rat Ogre for ballhandling purpouses, there are enough ballcarriers in a skaven team so to be forced to rely on a RO

[Zombie]

Gee I hit the button by mistake and then went back to edit. You must be sitting and waiting for a response. Oh no, not you, you don't "bait and wait" do you? :lol:

You must admit that a post saying nothing but "Which is completely false", too soon after mine for you to have even had time to read mine, does beg the reply you got for it.

[Skummy]

You must admit that a post saying nothing but "Which is completely false", too soon after mine for you to have even had time to read mine, does beg the reply you got for it.

Congratulations! This has to be the most convoluted sentence written today.

[Zombie]

Which is completely false.

The cheap price, high movement and normal AG of linerats makes them ideal for that purpose. IN fact, my brother was a master of the "swarm" defense.

And anyway, why wouldn't you stop players from laying TZs of your Rat Ogre? Do you like it when he throws a defender's choice blitz first thing? I don't. I think while you are busy running away, a normal coach would move in on your AG 4 RO. Personally, I'd rather the 50K AG 3 player with no SPPs went down.

The AV7 and no skill makes them more like the perfect victim.

What i would do is form a cage around the rat ogre with 4 players. Keeps him from getting swarmed, and keeps my linerats from getting killed.

[Zombie]

I was really thinking more like this (not quite as nice case)

Code: Select all

_X_bX__X_
___a_____
____XW___
___X_____

X = my guys
W = Wild Animal

1st block pushes to "a", 2nd block to "b" - that's as far as you can push forward without risking silly dodges (3,3,2 with no TRR). Even if the marker is taken out you've still ended up next to one of my guys so can't carry on moving.

I know what you're talking about from your former posts, definitely not from this diagram. All the rat ogre has to do is bring down the opponent on the first block, dodge away from the other ones at 2+ and move the rest of his full 6 squares. Not that hard a task.

Also, if the skaven team let the rat ogre wide open with the ball so that you could set up like this, he doesn't deserve to win. At least make some attempt at a cage...

[Zombie]

Skaven should have plenty of scoring possibilities, they don't need the RO for that.

Nobody is talking about giving him the ball on offense. Heck, i wouldn't even field him on offense! Wild animal is too much of a risk.

We're talking about giving him the ball when you steal it from the other team and can't score straight away for whatever reason. He's the best way to protect the ball.

[Zombie]

This topic has now split into two, so here goes.

Zombie:

If you are claiming that MA 7 Linerats have trouble getting SPPs just because you have better scorers on the team, then that is an issue of poor management. This can be equated to a WE team that allows for thier Wardancers to pull the team along untill there is no support for them. Use the MA 7, get them block.

Line-elves have AG4. That makes all the difference in the world. My line-elves usually get tons of skills and score most of my TDs. But it's hard to trust an AG3 guy with no access to dodge or catch when you have 4 AG4, MA9, dodge guys available. Catching on 3+ then seems like a daunting task.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

What i would do is form a cage around the rat ogre with 4 players. Keeps him from getting swarmed, and keeps my linerats from getting killed.

What players exactly do you use for this cage? What do you do when the cage is inevitably stalled? I guess you use storm vermin and throwers huh?
Whatever, Zombie, I am no skaven expert but I find it difficult to believe that you are. Especially when you claim to avoid trouble with a 50K player who's purpose is getting stuck in and taking one for the team.
Like I said, I think you are just mad that I agreed with you and just fishing for a fight. ...again. Only you could try to turn agreement into disagreement. It's so boring. I guess I'll leave and let you be an expert at a game you don't play.
Let's see you are now an expert at:
Orcs, Wood Elves, Skaven, Humans, Chaos Dwarves, Goblins, Halflings and Amazons...did I forget any? Wow. That's quite a resume, too bad you don't have any web sites, league stats, or opponents to back those claims up.

[Zombie]

I'd use any player for the cage. Preferably not gutter runners, and the number one choice would be storm vermins, but linerats can also do a pretty good job of it, once they've dodged away or otherwise broken free (e.g. with a 2-dice block that frees one of two players) like i said they should.

Orcs, Wood Elves, Skaven, Humans, Chaos Dwarves, Goblins, Halflings and Amazons...did I forget any?

Actually, you got the list totally wrong. I never played goblins (not yet anyway). Played ogres and minotaurs for one game each (quickly disbanded), and played vampires, snotlings, humans, orcs, skaven, wood elves, halflings, lizardmen, amazons, undead, dwarf (though very badly), chaos dwarf and chaos for at least one full season each (often more).

I would only consider myself somewhat of an expert on wood elves, orcs and skaven, the three teams i've played in at least 3 different leagues each (i've also played chaos in 3 different leagues, but there's too much to master on this team and i've still got a lot to learn). The other 11 races i've played, i haven't played enough games with them to consider myself any good, except maybe chaos dwarves which i'm now getting a hang of after about 20 games with the same team, and vampires (in 3rd ed with Jervis' optional big guy rules) which i've also played for over 20 games with the same team.

I'm hoping to try norse, dark elf, high elf, goblins and khemri sometime in the future. I've already got the minis anyway now...

Actually, i'd say that i'm probably just a decent coach, but a pretty good commish. At least, i hope i am.

Of course, being the skeptical person that you are, you never believe a word i say, so why believe this. But the truth is, in your case, i don't give the slightest damn what you believe.