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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:28 pm 
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As it`s called "Fantasy Football", not "Realism Football", I'd think it is as right to represent yourself the way you like ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:39 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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DinoTitanedition wrote:
4) Wrestling
...err...what`s wrong with that? I have the german rulesdescription here and it seems to look exactly like the old rule.

Because in English it changes from:
CRP: "Use of this skill does not cause a turnover unless the active player was holding the ball"

BB2016: "Use of this skill does not cause a turnover unless the player with Wrestle was holding the ball".

One interpretation of the above is that if you Blitz against a Wrestler Ball Carrier in your turn and the OTHER TEAMS player goes down it then causes a Turnover ending YOUR turn.

As opposed to old clear version which was unless the Blitzing player was holding the ball no turnover was caused.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:52 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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Special Play Cards can already be broken.

I did a test and started a human team. This is how it looks in the pre-match first game.

Mighty Lions (Human)
Blitzer x4 (360)
Catcher x2 (120)
Thrower x1 (70)
Linemans x4 (200)
Rerolls x2 (100)
Treasury 150k

New players will probably max team to TV100.

So in first game I'll get 150k from petty cash. Adding 150k from treasury and I got 300k to buy from. I'll pick 3 miscellaneous mayhem card. Fine. Hope for good ones.

Next step. Opponent have 100 TV so we draw 3 card each, and keep the best two. I draw from miscellaneous mayhem.

There you go. I solid team and 5 "200k" cards to play in the game. Nice.

Boom.


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:25 pm 
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RE CPOMB,

would there be a reason why it wouldnt work if Claw only affected AV9+ and reduced it to equivalent AV8 before modification (and PO was left as was)? Thus truly being a counter to the tank armour teams and still combinable with PO and MB but more niche in its usage therefore controlling its spread and effect?

As many have said POMB on its own isnt really the headline issue

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:46 pm 
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stashman wrote:
Special Play Cards can already be broken.
There you go. I solid team and 5 "200k" cards to play in the game. Nice.
Boom.

A lot of teams may start the League at 98 or 99 TV meaning you only have 4 and a bit of Treasury left over. The other team also has "Draw 3 keep 2" against your "Draw 6 keep 5". Maybe you win the first game; what is your plan for game two of the season?

You draw: Magic Sponge, Iron Man, Kid Gloves, Get 'em Lads, Knuckeduster, Rathath's Curse
I Draw: Bad Habits, Ego Trip, Mine.

Yours would be a good hand against a developed Killer Khaos team but against any Rookie team as first match of the season?


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:15 pm 
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Kaiowas wrote:
RE CPOMB,

would there be a reason why it wouldnt work if Claw only affected AV9+ and reduced it to equivalent AV8 before modification (and PO was left as was)? Thus truly being a counter to the tank armour teams and still combinable with PO and MB but more niche in its usage therefore controlling its spread and effect?

As many have said POMB on its own isnt really the headline issue


The reasons are:
1) thinking of the same environment the death rate of AV 9 team would be in line with that of AV 8 team, so much lower.... but
2)it would not be the same environment! people would choose claw A LOT less and so AV 9 teams would be twice advantaged.
3) As a skill Claw is the risky choice and PO is the brainless one. Against AV7 Claw is useless bloat. PO is useful against anyone.
4) All best teams can have PO. Only some teams can have Claw. So affecting Claw changes a LOT balance between teams.

Most people have a problem first with claw because most the people that make the argument are
1)heavily biased by their preference towards high AV teams
2) Have to seriously adapt their tactics to cope
3)are scared like little girls of their big bad players dying (the reason they prefere high AV teams).

People that chooses AV 8 and 7 teams are not afraid of their players dying (they are used to it) and don't have to play much differently so they have little issue with PO (or tackle).


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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:44 pm 
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stashman wrote:
Special Play Cards can already be broken.

I did a test and started a human team. This is how it looks in the pre-match first game.

Mighty Lions (Human)
Blitzer x4 (360)
Catcher x2 (120)
Thrower x1 (70)
Linemans x4 (200)
Rerolls x2 (100)
Treasury 150k

New players will probably max team to TV100.

So in first game I'll get 150k from petty cash. Adding 150k from treasury and I got 300k to buy from. I'll pick 3 miscellaneous mayhem card. Fine. Hope for good ones.

Next step. Opponent have 100 TV so we draw 3 card each, and keep the best two. I draw from miscellaneous mayhem.

There you go. I solid team and 5 "200k" cards to play in the game. Nice.

Boom.


Or you could have had an extra two permanent re-rolls for your team for the whole season. Or an apothecary. Or a twelfth and thirteenth player.

Yes, you could do this to get a one game advantage. But if you're playing in a league, I'd say that's daft.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:20 pm 
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DinoTitanedition wrote:
Quote:
The pitch size had a reason even if it is tournament unfriendly.


I`ve reread his mentioned points and gave them a thought again. Are they all observed by their quality for tournament play? Because for me, as a someone who values atmosphere a lot more...

That's not what Tom means, and I fully agree with him.
The pitch getting bigger has zero in game effect (because it's just scaled up) but it does inconvenience some tournaments because of table size.
It also inconveniences some leagues. My club meets at the same place as we hold our tournaments, and on a busy night (with other games going on) tables can become a premium, so if we have two games of BB now we only need one table. With the new pitch we need one table per game (and have to sit side on :puke: ).

Yes, it's a minor quibble, but it has real-world issues.

Quote:
4) Wrestling
...err...what`s wrong with that? I have the german rulesdescription here and it seems to look exactly like the old rule.

Maybe it was a issue with the German translation but:

My Player A vs your Play B (assume Both Down is rolled and Wrestle used)

CRP:
A with ball vs B with Wrestle = Turnover
A vs B with Wrestle & ball = No Turnover

New wording:
A with ball vs B with Wrestle = Turnover
A vs B with Wrestle & ball = Turnover

Now do you see the issue?

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Last edited by Darkson on Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:27 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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Assumign the wording is...
BB2016: "Use of this skill does not cause a turnover unless the player with Wrestle was holding the ball".

Darkson wrote:
My Player A vs your Play B (assume Both Down is rolled)
A with Wrestle vs B with ball = Turnover


Your example above isn't a Turnover, B has ball but not wrestle

The problem is when:
A (with or without Wrestle) vs B with Wrestle + Ball = turnover in your turn which didn't happen in CRP

or that's how I understood it

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:35 pm 
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Correct (I knew what I meant, shouldn't post so soon after waking up after 3 hours sleep :zzz: - editting).

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:25 am 
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I think the D3 roll for MVP does promote the BB story, just in a less random way. I would likely (though I know full well, I'd be in the minority) select 3 players who *did something* that game. Probably one who injured another player, scored, made an outstanding pass, etc. I see it as a way of leveling up a good player.

If you preferred the old rules, simple enough to randomly make your 3 choices. Roll the d16, 3 times to select 3 players. Then roll the d3 to see who gets it.

Personally, I always disliked the fact that a valuable MVP could go to a dead, benched, or Star player. Blood Bowl is already a pretty thankless game as is.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:51 am 
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After having a large think about re-drafting rules ... the D3 MVP makes more sense to me. It allows you to focus your MVPs on the players you play to carry over and then also make sure they don't get MVP to become too expensive to re-draft once you like where they are.

So I'd probably delete the D3 MVP from my list and add that Gold should be part of Team Value in its place.

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:36 pm 
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Babs wrote:

I think there is significant lack of clarity around the new rules, as opposed to that which is carried over. So much so, that they look and feel poorly written.

For example:
In a Friendly game:
* Do Deaths count permanently on a team or do the players 'just go into the Dead and Injured box and not return for this game' as specifically written elsewhere in Deathzone?
* Do friendly games count as the game players sit out if they are suffering a MNG injury?
* Do you roll for Fan Factor after a friendly game?

In between seasons:
* What price do rerolls cost (single price or double) when rebuilding? Do they carry over or do they need to be rebought?
* Do coaching staff / apothecaries need to be repurchased? I understand that Assistant Coaches can be gathered for free by releasing 'want to retire' players.


(These are genuine questions - can anyone definitively answer them?)



I've noticed no-one has commented (not to drag away from other conversation threads.) Do others agree? Are these things vague and not clearly dealt with or is it just me?

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Rolex wrote:
Kaiowas wrote:
RE CPOMB,

would there be a reason why it wouldnt work if Claw only affected AV9+ and reduced it to equivalent AV8 before modification (and PO was left as was)? Thus truly being a counter to the tank armour teams and still combinable with PO and MB but more niche in its usage therefore controlling its spread and effect?

As many have said POMB on its own isnt really the headline issue


The reasons are:
1) thinking of the same environment the death rate of AV 9 team would be in line with that of AV 8 team, so much lower.... but
2)it would not be the same environment! people would choose claw A LOT less and so AV 9 teams would be twice advantaged.
3) As a skill Claw is the risky choice and PO is the brainless one. Against AV7 Claw is useless bloat. PO is useful against anyone.
4) All best teams can have PO. Only some teams can have Claw. So affecting Claw changes a LOT balance between teams.

Most people have a problem first with claw because most the people that make the argument are
1)heavily biased by their preference towards high AV teams
2) Have to seriously adapt their tactics to cope
3)are scared like little girls of their big bad players dying (the reason they prefere high AV teams).

People that chooses AV 8 and 7 teams are not afraid of their players dying (they are used to it) and don't have to play much differently so they have little issue with PO (or tackle).



I just feel that teams like Norse and Humans are the real teams that will be hurt by the change, not so much the Chaos' of this world, was wondering if there was a better way

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 Post subject: Re: Galak's Review of the rules in his boxed set
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:20 pm 
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Babs wrote:
In between seasons:
* What price do rerolls cost (single price or double) when rebuilding? Do they carry over or do they need to be rebought?
* Do coaching staff / apothecaries need to be repurchased? I understand that Assistant Coaches can be gathered for free by releasing 'want to retire' players.

(These are genuine questions - can anyone definitively answer them?)
I've noticed no-one has commented (not to drag away from other conversation threads.) Do others agree? Are these things vague and not clearly dealt with or is it just me?[/quote]
I think I can only answer the last two. The rules about re-drafting state you should "take a new team roster then create your team again - just as you did when you first joined the league." The 3 changes are that you can keep FF, that you an rehire old players, and that you can keep players who retire this season as ACs. To me that says everything about rebuying a team is as per starting a fresh team except you have your old players available in the pool and you can keep FF and may gain some starting ACs. RRs, Apo, AC's (barring those from retired players) and CLs need to be rebought.


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