Problems with Wood elves (a bit long, sorry!)

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:31 pm

Hi guys!

IN our league, I play Chaos Dwarves, but we want to start over because most of us were new at BB and some feel their teams are not developped correctly. Fine by me. We can always select to switch to our ancient team when we get around the same TR.

I want to try Wood elves. I played three games with them so far and I am not doing well!!

First, here's my roster:

10 linelves
1 Wardancer
2 RR
8 FF

I bought an apoth after the 2nd game, and I got 70 K in my treasury after 3. I want a 12th player as soon as I can, so I'll buy whatever I can after game4, hopefully another WD (needs 50 K though!).

Only one lineman got a skill, and I was lucky enough to get +1 ST.

Many (4 players) are less than 3 SPP away from their first skill, including the WD. I try to collect a pass with a different player on offense so that if he gets the MVP, he goes up.

OK, now, the real question is coming!

I thought it would be easy dodging away with AG4 but I find myself using more RR than with a low AG team! I don't know how to play them and which way to develop them!!!

I was thinking something like this:

Linemen: one kicker, one DP, a few Block, a few Dodge. A few tackle on 2nd skills, make blodge players with the other. A couple of guard on doubles.

WD: Strip ball or tackle as the first skill. JU on doubles Don't know where to go next.

I want to get a thrower before the catchers. And I will surely buy a treeman down there somewhere.

Come on, hit me with your advices!

Fred

ljm · Post by **ljm** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:42 pm

I wouldn't take Jump Up when rolling doubles for a Wardancer. Dauntless would be my first choice.

ljm

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 5:40 am

from the looks of things, you dont seem to be doing badly. in fact, it looks like you're doing rather well. those skill selections look fine. i would probably take strip ball first on the WD, dauntless on doubles. funny thing is, i find my dwarves dodge better than my elves too... something to do w/ that ag4 that just never seems to work right.

slackman42

JJB · Post by **JJB** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:19 am

I agree with Slackman and Ljm about the choice of dauntless as THE skill for a double on a wardancer. It allows you to take the ball away from the odd ST4 player...
As to your problems dodging, apart from the typical bad luck some have (like me), there is one additional factor that always makes things worse:
when we have ag 4 players, we tend to feel a bit 'too' confident to dodge away, and we actually tend to rely on the dice a lot more than we would proportionally with ag 3 players, so we end up worse off than with ag 3 players.

Since you play wood elves, rely on their speed more than on their agility in your game. Dodge only when you HAVE TO, and only once you have done all actions that do not require a die roll in the turn...

I find your intended purchases very sensible, although I would only consider buying a treeman at the very latest, i.e. after having 2 WDs, 4 rerolls, and at least 14 players (that may include a thrower and a couple of catchers, up to you...).

As to the skills for your linemen, I suggest you adapt your decision to give more block or dodge skills according to the races that your opponents in your league have picked.
If evenly distributed, I often like having a balance of block/sidestep and dodge/block linemen. One kicker with block is also handy.

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 3:49 pm

Thanks for the advices guys!

So far, I have played 5 games (2W-3L), and my team is improving, but still frustrating to play:

Still 10 linemen: 1 kicker, 1 +ST, 1 +AG and 1 +MA (quite lucky here !!!);
ONly one with a niggling injury.
I bought a second WD that made 5 SPP in his first game (TD + CAS)
The first WD now has Strip Ball and Dauntless.

My FF his hovering between 7 and 8 every game;
I have 60 K in the treasury and I'M planning to buy a 3rd RR before anything else, mainly because of the AG 5 lineman that is quite a passer!

Fred

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:57 pm

i wouldnt take guard.
I prefer skills like sidestep.

Guard means that you will going to fight...
Well, this is the better way to get injured with WE after missed leaps...

Take catchers, throwers, but Treeman would be the last players to buy IMO (he is useless).

Your skills choice are quite good. But i would go deeper in Agility skills.
I like them like that.

BadMrMojo · Post by **BadMrMojo** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:36 pm

Longshot wrote:i wouldnt take guard.
I prefer skills like sidestep....

I personally say both. Guard is great for forcing open those holes in a tough defense and for getting in the way on offense. An ag 4 guarder can get almost anywhere to assist, and that's a good thing. A front line of blodging sidesteppers is a glorious thing.

Longshot wrote:Take catchers, throwers, but Treeman would be the last players to buy IMO (he is useless)...

The treeman can be like buying two or three extra apothecaries, if your opponent focuses on him. Throw your TM into the middle of a pack of baddies and watch as they gang up to take him down. Let them do so. Repeatedly. He can take it and every hit he takes is 1 less hit on your av7 elves. Really, just throw him in the mix and watch the orcs beat their heads on him. He's a lifesaver. If he's standing in a TZ, save his block for the end of the turn. If he's not in a TZ, throw him into a couple. Don't forget to go ahead and try to dodge that extra space to mark another opponent. He has stand firm and you could always throw a 6.

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:54 pm

I agree with MrMojo about the treeman. Trees save lives! (this sounds too much like a greenpeace slogan, but it's true!) A tree on the LOS can tie up a great number of players. Players like Mummies and Black Orcs, who aren't going to dodge away, and, being blockless, need assists to try to get the tree to topplle. If this fails, the tree can wallop the closest opponent at the end of the next turn.

A skill I like very much on 1 or 2 of my WE is pass block. (esp a 5 Ag Line-elf or catcher) Even the Low Ag teams need to pass sometime during the game, and a couple of PassBlockers spread across the field can really make it difficult for the opponent to find place to throw from safely, so this puts more pressure on him/her.

I think the most valuable attribute for an elven coach is patience. I usually play far to aggressively. Score on turn 2 and consequently get beaten to a pulp untill my opponent scores the equalizer. so: patience, patience when trying to get the ball away from an opponent! Make sure your elves are safe!

I like block better than dodge, because block can be used aggressively as well as defensively, and it can cause a turnover for the opponent. anyway, if you give a player dodge, you'll see the opponent has given a few players tackle!. Block is there to stay!

sangraal · Post by **sangraal** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:11 pm

One of the coaches in our league of newbies started a Wood Elf team a couple of months ago --- he had Necromantic undead as his first team but
he had lost 7 games in a row with them.

His wood elf team "The Passing Breeze" is doing really well, only lost their
first game (due mainly to a pitch invasion).

Anyway, getting to the point --- he took side step as the second skill for his
starting wardancer ---- its saved that wardancers life on a few occasions;
believe me. But then again, he uses the wardancer to Leap into my Orcs
cage & sack the ball-carrier ---- then chooses to be pushed back into the square with the ball, making it scatter, or he will choose to be pushed back
into a square next to Orcs that have already moved.

It works really well for him --- so well in fact that I have had to change
the format of my cage to counter him. (something that I have not had to do before & I've only lost 1 of the 11 games I've played with them).

sangraal

P.S. When my Orcs played them, it ended 2-2

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:13 pm

if i may humbly suggest my wood elf strategy guide at:

http://mama.indstate.edu/users/python/bbowl/welves/

not much i can add to that (or I would have by now)

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:47 am

Your strategy guide is part of my bookmarks... How could I have forgotten to read it !

Fred

Fronko · Post by **Fronko** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:11 am

Orin wrote:I think the most valuable attribute for an elven coach is patience. I usually play far to aggressively. Score on turn 2 and consequently get beaten to a pulp untill my opponent scores the equalizer. so: patience, patience when trying to get the ball away from an opponent! Make sure your elves are safe!

Well, a perfect example of how opinions can vary!

I always try to score as fast as I can. Then, as my opponent drives I try as hard as I can to rid him of the ball jsut as fast as possible, making for a quick second TD. If you are at that point you are already half way down to victory. I know, this does not always work, but the faster you make your TD the more time you have for a second after a turnover. This way I beat an (inexperienced, I must say) orc team 6 - 0. 3 turn overs first half, one "standard" TD after receiving first in the second half, then 2 more turnovers.

Guess, I can never do that again, but hey ... that was enlightening!

[drool] In my eyes, wood elves ae the perfect team for this kind of strategy. All players fast and agile and the perfect cage breaker. [/drool]

Orin · Post by **Orin** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:11 pm

Fronko wrote:[drool] In my eyes, wood elves ae the perfect team for this kind of strategy. All players fast and agile and the perfect cage breaker. [/drool]

Well, not if your single Wardancer get mauled the first time he tries to get the ball away from an opponent. WD's have the nasty and unhealthy tendencies to be surrounded by opponents after blocking their caged ball carrier.

What i mean with patience is: don't charge 1 player into the backfield and get your wardancer killed. It might even be a good idea to get the ball away from the opponent and pass it back down your own half so you can build up a drive at your own pace.

I must say that elf strategy probably will change radically when their Team Rating rises, but the highest rating I got is 130 or something.

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:20 pm

Orin wrote:
I must say that elf strategy probably will change radically when their Team Rating rises, but the highest rating I got is 130 or something.

135 after the 5 games that I've played.

Matsu · Post by **Matsu** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:40 pm

Weslytj's woodies guide is fabulous. Start there for your strategy and upgrade paths.

One thought on your use of rerolls. With only 2, you should consider not using them so often on a failed dodge roll. If you only have a couple guys left to move, let him fall.

In fact, it would be good training for you to go an entire game without rerolling any dodge rolls - it would teach you a couple good lessons, I think:
1. It's not as bad to blow your dodge roll as you think it is.
2. Those rerolls are more valuable for other things
3. You'll always do the important parts of the turn first before you start the "dodging brigade".

Just a thought.