Balanced Vampire Team

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 6:17 pm

Hi all,
in anticipation (or rather - fear) of what the new vampire team looks like, I thought I might as well present our version to you.

The team has been through 5 different incarnations and lots of playtest, and by now I think we've struck gold

Design description, painted team and the line-up, at:
http://home.worldonline.dk/nyskes/bbowl/D_vampire.htm

Martin

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:29 pm

Hi all,
no comments ey?

Well, for those who couldn't be bothered to check out the link, here is the line-up:

***Vampire Team***
0-4 140K vampires 6448 Regen, Gaze G, AG
0-4 70K ghouls 7337 dodge G, AG
0-2 30K zombies 4328 Regen, G
0-12 30K skellies 5327 Regen, G
No apoth, No wizard, 60K Rerolls.

In a nutshell: While negaskills may be fine to balance 1 player, using it to balance the

whole core of a team is a bad idea. It will too often create situations that are

ridiculously advantageous for one team or the other.
Thats why we've removed the "Off for a bite".

We've had good success with the "4 good players, 4 decent ones + cr*p" formula. We've also

used it for our Bretonnia team, and we've found that it creates a good balance.

Martin

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 2:34 pm

Why 0-2 Zombies? I don't see any reason why you shouldn't let vampires have lots of them.

Also I'm worried about a base ST4 AG4 player - especially 4 of them on a team. With access to Gen & Ag they can all get Block, Dodge very quickly making the whole team extremely dangerous.

How much have you played with the team? Has it played any games?

I think my starting lineup would be:

3 Vampires
2 Zombies
7 Skeles
4 RR
7 FF

That's 12 players and 4 RRs. Once you've got a few Block Dodge Vamps they are going to be a hard team to beat. Once they've saved up for the 4th Vamp they are going to be very tough to break down.

IMO this team is far too strong. The conjunction of very cheap linemen and not so expensive stars is not a good one.

Recommendations:
0-2 Vamps ~160k. Remember BC's are 130k and Vamps have AG4.
0-12 Zombies - I don't see why you should limit them
70k rerolls.

That would probably make them a little fairer.

Ian

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sat Sep 28, 2002 5:45 pm

It will be impossible to create a "balanced" Vampire team until someone creates a "balanced" Vampire. What you suggest is insane and I fully agree with Ian. Their high price is so totally offset by the low price of the other players on the roster that it doesn't even matter. I don't think that Skeletons or Zombies are crap. They might be sub-par but at 30K they are great for what they do.

I prefer the skellies for the extra movement, especially on this team, but I don't think they really fit on the roster.

You refer to that Brettonian team and say that it was good but that team was broken, also, for the same reasons listed above.

This roster needs more work.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:39 am

Hi both of you

Just to set the record straight, I was talking about a homemade Bretonnia team, not the official one, which I didn't like at all.

As for playtest, we've had absolutely tons.
This is the 4th or 5th version of the team - each a slight change to the previous one. The previous teams have seen some 50 matches each. The current one is currently at 20.
So that is a lot of playtest.

And yep, the 4 vamps are very good, but 4 players does not necessarily a good team make.
Whack one, possibly with a foul, and there are only so many ways they can go.

Ian suggested a starting team with 3 vamps.
Try it out, you'll be surprised how few options you have on the pitch.

As for the 0-2 zombies, we played a season with all zombies, and found that it was too good. The AV8 zombies were sucking up a bit too much damage. The skellies are more brittle, and makes it harder for the team to go the distance on the pitch.

Martin

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:33 pm

What ruleset are you playing them with?

How did you decide the price of the Vamps? Normally I look at the closest offical player and work out cost from there - so a BC has a similar stat line 2 AG @20k = 40k, -10k for one less skill = 160k.

I don't understand why they get cheap rerolls than a normal undead team.

No other team has access to ST4 AG4 positional players - even at high cost - let alone 4 of them.

IMO this is a strong team, and new teams you ought to try to make slightly weaker than the official teams (to avoid power-gaming). However they are not over powerful, and a IMO little tweaking should make them better.

Ian

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:49 pm

4 vampires like those one's is unbalanced to me...AG4 ST4 and other stuf of course. MHO

Furelli · Post by **Furelli** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:10 pm

Hows about something like

0-6 Skeleton

0-6 Zombie

0-4 Ghoul

0-2 Vampire 7 4 4 7 Regen, Gaze Gen, Agi 140k

70k Re-roll

Or thereabouts.

Furelli.

Cervidal · Post by **Cervidal** » Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:39 pm

As long as you insist on making any kind of player with AG 4 and ST 4 the team isn't going to work. You either have to give them a trait negative enough to make them not worth playing or the player is too good.

Why the massive desire for Vampire teams? Vampires are supposed to be solitary nasties who live in hiding because of their number of vulnerabilities. What would make you think a team of Blood Bowlers could stop them? Or want to, for that matter?

Furelli · Post by **Furelli** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 9:52 am

I don't know if there is a massive demand for a Vampire team. What there is is an inevitable time when there will be a Vampire team, and I for one would like to see it as a balanced idea.
It occurred to me last night that since Ag4 and St4 on one character seems to be such a bad idea that we need to come up with some sort of alternative to make a balanced Vamp.

Another of my suggestions:

Vampire 7 3 5 7 Regen, Gaze Gen, Str, Agi 150k

Moonsong · Post by **Moonsong** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:07 am

Why not settle on the first idea for rookie vampires, before the introduction of negative skills?

Vampire 6 4 3 8 Gaze, Regenerate Gen, ST, AG 110k
(Oberwald, I think

)

They looked quite playable, a long ago.

Moonsong

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:16 am

Yup. 6 4 3 8 looks good with Hypotic gaze & Regen Access to St, AG & Gen.

Cant see the team starting with a St 4 and AG 4 access. And off for a bite is just a plain crazy idea which is just there to offset the Ag4 and St4. I hate it.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:19 am

Well i'm all for a vampire team ( Mainly because i've got 4 Count Luthors doing nothing at the moment )

My prediction for Vampires are

4 Vampires 6 4 3 8 Regenerate, Hypnotic gaze 130k
2 Ghouls 7 3 3 7 Dodge 70k
0-12 Linemen 6 3 3 8 50k

Moonsong · Post by **Moonsong** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 11:38 am

I'd prefer:

0-12 Human Thralls 6 3 3 7 40k General

I think that being regularly sucked off (Ooops, no pun intended

)
might be a little debilitating, hence the lower AV.

Moonsong

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:14 pm

Thralls i can live with ( no pun intended ) just couldn't remember the name. AV 7 or 8 i'm also happy with. Although i feel that they'd have better sense to take a little armour on the field with them

Talk Fantasy Football

Balanced Vampire Team

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