Big Guy/Leader re-roll

rozia · Post by **rozia** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:32 pm

Hi all,

May Leader re-roll be used on Big Guy's actions ? What about re-rolling failed Bonehead this way ?

rozia

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:35 pm

The BBRC will clarify that after the October Review. Until then, house rule it.

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 4:21 pm

The current stance is "Yes he can"...with the usual rules for the Leader reroll of course

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 6:56 pm

Wow! Really? I don't mind the big guys using leader re-rolls but using it for Bonehead sucks I think! If that's the case then i want to change my stance on everything I have ever said about big guys! Wild Animals are underpowered compared to Boneheads, and I would definitely take and ogre over a troll.

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 8:11 pm

Bonehead roll? no. They get the reroll for Blocks and stuff though.

(sorry, I was answering the first question not the second.)

I'm not 100% certain on this, but that certainly seems the fair way to do things. After all, if he's being stupid no amount of Leadering is going to wake him up.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 9:25 pm

Well, the current stance of the Oberwald is the total opposite of what you said:

Leader rerolls are considered like team rerolls for all purposes, so no they can't use them.

Bonehead can be rerolled with pro.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 9:50 pm

Well as far as I understand the current rules:-

All Big Guys cannot use TRRs.

All Big Guys can use a Leader RR to reroll any of their dice rolls.

So this would include Really Stupid or Bonehead. Just think of it as the Leader yelling at them to wake out of their slumber..... did he do it? roll that dice and see!

Dave

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 10:00 pm

If you want to follow the exact text of the LBR(1.3):

"(...)The counter is used in exactly the same way as a Team Re-roll
counter(...)"

and everyone knows a Team Re-roll can't be used by a Big Guy. That's why we don't allow it in our league. But this is only my humble opinion.

christer · Post by **christer** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 10:11 pm

"(...)The counter is used in exactly the same way as a Team Re-roll
counter(...)"

Exactly.. The leader reroll is used in the same way as a team reroll, but it is not a team reroll. Compare this to the "Strong Arm doesn't allow you to dump-off in short range" discussion.

The way I read the rules, I agree with Dangerous Dave.

-- Christer

Remco · Post by **Remco** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 10:37 pm

In my opinion, when it says "use in exactly the same way" it means you have to include the restrictions that come along with it. It doesn't say "a LRR is LIKE a TRR", as opposed to the dump-off being LIKE a pass action.

With dump-off/strong arm, the text says "REDUCE the band range by one band (but never lower than quick)". The text between brackets is applied with a dump-off, where you already make a quick pass (but this on a side line, another thread already discussed this to boredom).

Korhil · Post by **Korhil** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:44 am

What if the Gig Guy himself had Leader?
Would/Should that change him being allowed to use it?

(they can take it on a doubles roll right?)

---Korhil

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 4:42 am

Korhil wrote:What if the Gig Guy himself had Leader?
Would/Should that change him being allowed to use it?

(they can take it on a doubles roll right?)

---Korhil

Nope. I can't see any way you can allow a Leader reroll to be used in a situation where you can't ever use a team reroll.

There was a discussion on this issue way back when allies were allowed, but could not use rerolls. The Bretonnian Questing Knight could be used as an ally and could supply the Leader reroll but could not use it. It was argued that a Leader inspires others, not himself, so there is no reason to assume the Leader should necesarilly use the Leader reroll.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:08 am

Well one of the BBRC members said this on the BB Mailing list:-

I'd play by the letter of the rules: the player can't use any Team Re-rolls. Leader works like a Team Re-roll, but I think it counts accurately as a skill re-roll. Such a split (skill vs team) does exist in the rules; check the Handbook for details.

As always, if your league wants to play by a different set of rules, do so! But I'm fairly certain that Big Guys are going to be allowed to use Leader re-rolls (officially).

Dave

Nermal · Post by **Nermal** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 5:44 pm

i suppose that house ruling it until we get something in the LRB is the thing. i will vote for it as i have a minatour that can really use it.

Ddraig Coch · Post by **Ddraig Coch** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:17 pm

I'd have to agree with the quote Dangerous Dave had dug out. Using the Leader re-roll is verging on beardy because it is trying to bend the wording and spirit of the Big Guy drawback

Page 25 LRB v1.3

Big Guys prefer to work on their own, and in any case are not noted for paying terribly much attention to what is going on in team practice sessions! As a result, Big Guys may not use Team Re-Rolls during their actions

Page 34 LRB v1.3

The player is a natural born leader and inspires the rest of the team while he is on the field. Having such a player in the team allows the coach to take a Leader Re-roll counter at the start of each match and at half-time and place it in the re-roll track along with his Team Re-roll counters. A team may only ever have one Leader Re-roll counter, even it has several players with this skill. The counter is used in exactly the same way as a Team Re-roll counter, but it may only be used if a player with the Leader skill is on the playing field (standing or prone) at the time the counter is used.

I've highlighted what I believe to be the two important sentences in the above quotes. This is what makes me believe it is beardy to allow Big Guys to use Team Re-rolls.

Besides, I think Big Guys are very powerful in that they can get skills at the same rate as normal players. I thought they were supposed to be Thick ?

Dave