Hand Offs, SPPs, and Turnovers! Help!

Bob-the-Fish · Post by **Bob-the-Fish** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 1:39 am

Deathwing says in his post Rules FAQs that a hand off does not give SPPs. This is news to me as I have always thought that a player would get SPPs for a hand-off that is caught. In the LRB it describes a hand off as "a type of very short pass, where the ball is simply handed to a player that is in an adjacent square." I always thought that this ment it should be treated as a second type of pass action that is automatically complete. The LRB says "the hand off counts as an accurate pass." So why doesn't it give SPPs?

A second question: Officially, how is a "incomplete" hand off supposed to scatter. Played as a type of pass, I'd say it should scatter three times like a normal pass. But if its not a type of pass that gives SPPs, should it only scatter once?

And a follow up to the above question: Does and incompleted hand off result in a turnover? I always played as if it was an incomplete pass so that would result in a turnover, but if its not technically a pass, and SPPs are not awarded as if it were a pass, it shouldn't be a tunrnover, right?
Maybe I missed something or I'm just misreading the rules.
Can anybody explain this?

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:53 am

The LRB says "the hand off counts as an accurate pass." So why doesn't it give SPPs?

It counts as an accurate pass in terms of thr target number needed to make a successful handoff, but a handoff is not a pass, it is a catch roll made by the receiving player. That's why you don't get any SPPs, the player making tha handoff doesn't really do anything except run up to his receiver.

A second question: Officially, how is a "incomplete" hand off supposed to scatter.

It scatters once from the receiver.

Does and incompleted hand off result in a turnover?

It sure does

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 8:16 am

Anthony_TBBF wrote:
Does and incompleted hand off result in a turnover?
It sure does

Not always. Since a Handoff is treated like a pass action then if any player on your team ends up in possession of the ball it isn't a turnover.

Ian

Bob-the-Fish · Post by **Bob-the-Fish** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 4:50 pm

Thanks for the reply. Not giving SPPs for a hand off makes sense if it is not a pass and it should only scatter one square from the receiver, BUT then how does not "catching" the hand off result in a turnover? There is nothing in the section on hand offs that says anything about turnovers(I've read it through about 10 times now) and it is not one the 6 causes listed under Turnovers, right? I mean it says in #3 a tunrnover is caused if "The ball is passed and not caught by a player from the moving team." Now, as I read it according to the above answers, a hand off is NOT a pass, so it doesn't cause a turnover under #3. Nor is it an attempt to pick up the ball, so fail under #4 still doesn't cover it. Those are the only two that have anything to do with the ball and the rule that any failed action causes a tunrnover is gone, so how can it not be a pass and still cause a turnover.
I'm still hesitant to believe that it is not really a pass because the description in the LRB sure seems to say its just a "very short pass" for which "no dice roll is required to see if the hand off is on target." But that could just be a bad interpritation on my part or bad wording in the book.
Sorry to be so anal about it, but this is really puzzling me and two of my friends who have been discussing it.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:05 pm

A Hand-Off is a seperate action and is definately not a Pass. Passing skills don't apply and no pass roll is made. No SPPs and no Pass Block either.

Actually Bob, you've found a loophole in the wording, it should be changed to "The ball is passed or handed off and not caught by a player from the moving team."
I'll mail AndyH about it.

Anthony_TBBF · Post by **Anthony_TBBF** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:18 pm

Since a Handoff is treated like a pass action then if any player on your team ends up in possession of the ball it isn't a turnover.

Yes I suppose that is true

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:38 pm

Just a snip from Andy Hall on the subject:
"The turnover is covered in item 3 of the turnover section. "The ball is passed and not caught by a player from the moving team". In the hand-off
section it states for the purposes of catching the that the hand-off counts as an accurate pass therefore if the catch is missed a turnover occurs......
I agree that the wording is confusing and could be better written. Unfortunately the Rulebook has now gone off to the printers, and I can't change the LRB as that would cause confusion. The best thing I can do is address it in my next editorial."

So there you have it.

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:23 pm

I like the bit where AH says he can't change the LRB as it would cause confusion

Ddraig Coch · Post by **Ddraig Coch** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:08 pm

put those claws away Voyager

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:26 pm

And there was I thinking of that phrase "too hot?....yadda yadda....kitchen"

what a comment after everything that's happened recently, gotta love the guy