GW bringing back Specialist Games?!?

[GalakStarscraper]

I've not played it but I'd say if people want Hexes there's dreadball from Mantic to consider as you say thats the last thing you want GW to do and I'm fairly certain they are right there with you

Elfball works on hexes as well.

[Darkson]

And did long before Dreadball.

[VoodooMike]

I don't like hex maps, personally. If you're desperate to have Blood Bowl use more realistic distances, and don't feel like completely rewriting the game given that it makes certain types of movement into an awkward zig-zag, and changes the number of adjacencies to every space on the board, you can simply have every second diagonal movement made by a player on a given turn cost 2 squares of movement.

The actual distance being traveled when you make a diagonal move on a square grid is 1.41 squares. Round it up to 1.5 and you've got the rationale for the 2 squares every second diagonal move.

And did long before Dreadball

The only people who care about what came first are people who want you to use what came first. Remember how apple enthusiasts would tell anyone who listened that apple invented windows? Remember how nobody but apple enthusiasts gave a damn?

[Darkson]

The only people who care about what came first are people who want you to use what came first. Remember how apple enthusiasts would tell anyone who listened that apple invented windows? Remember how nobody but apple enthusiasts gave a damn?

Nope, thanks for the history lesson.

[rolo]

If you're desperate to have Blood Bowl use more realistic distances, and don't feel like completely rewriting the game given that it makes certain types of movement into an awkward zig-zag, and changes the number of adjacencies to every space on the board, you can simply have every second diagonal movement made by a player on a given turn cost 2 squares of movement.

D&D did this first!

The only people who care about what came first ...

ah.

[VoodooMike]

Nope, thanks for the history lesson.

My pleasure, Darkson. All can be saved, even from their ignorance!

D&D did this first!

Oh hell, it long predates that. D&D only used that method in version 3.5, having used the diagonal = 1 square always movement system in 3.0, and abandoning it as of 4e (and continuing not to use it in 5e as far as I have seen). Even WoTC used it in other products prior to putting it into that single version of D&D.

The important point is that it allows you to use a square grid AND produces more realistic distance-movement as well as being easier for most people to handle than hex based maps. The only way that hex based maps are easier is for quick, rough circles and cones... and both hex and square can handle that using an area ruler or marked string instead.

ah.

Yeah. Even I don't know who first started doing it that way... I bet neither of us cares enough to hunt that info down, either. QED.

[Kafre es Ispurio]

ah.

Yeah. Even I don't know who first started doing it that way... I bet neither of us cares enough to hunt that info down, either. QED.

Everything in the end comes from Nuffle.

[Darkson]

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/ ... atest.html

For people like Lunchmoney:

Andy Hoare is going to be the new head of Specalist Games, and he told me at the birthday thing that Epic was the game he was most looking forward to working on. I could see it being an obvious second choice after Blood Bowl. Forgeworld used to make some really nice Epic versions of their 40k kits.

He also mentioned he wanted to make it more about Titans fighting other Titans.

Forge World are also taking over Hobbit/Lord of the Rings although that isn’t being headed up by Andy Hoare. Some other Guy. Seems like Forge world is going to be divided into three rules development teams. 30k and 40k under Alan Bligh, Specialist Games, under Andy Hoare. and Lord of the Rings/Hobbit. With Tony Cottrell overseeing all three branches.

The other impression I got, was that at least for blood bowl, The initial boxed set will be created like a GW studio product. Plastic teams and such. And then all the support products will be Resin. In the same way, there is now a HH boxed game produced by the studio.

[lunchmoney]

For people like Lunchmoney:

Thank you

[javascrybe]

Frequent lurker, not-so-frequent poster (obviously).

Here's something I posted elsewhere. It reflects my very personal view on what could be done for Blood Bowl's new release. Regards.

Think of the Children - Blood Bowl for a new generation

After seeing those NICE new miniatures for an upcoming Blood Bowl (THANK YOU!), I got really excited and decided to bring my 10 years-old son into the magnificent world of Blood Bowl (that's around the age I got in anyway). I went back to my drawer I picked up my Blood Bowl 3rd edition box, and we played a game. After all...tt's got so much to draw on: the ubiquitous sports theme, the humor, the tension... few other games tried but none comes close to Blood Bowl's raw charm. I knew he'd love it.

His verdict? "It's fun dad, but it's too complicated, and it took SOOOOO long... why do you love this game so much?".

I reeled from the blow, but in retrospect I understand him completely. With full knowledge of the kind of debate this typically generates, there are a few things I feel I must humbly lay on the table, or forever hold my peace.

Blood Bowl needs to be simpler.
This is the big one. Over the years, Blood bowl gradually got more esoteric and less accessible. Using a pro re-roll requires another roll first, and you can team re-roll a Pro re-roll but not the roll pro re-rolled (say that ten times for fun). You get an arbitrary +1 to all Agility rolls except Interception (where it's -2) and Passing (where you do get the +1 but for only a Quick pass).

It's quirky. It's not consistent. It's hard to learn. It's hard to teach.

There are a lot of ways this could be achieved, big and small, and some of which would not even touch the "core game" that much. Standardizing all game tables (injury, advancement, kick-off, etc.) so they use a single standard d8, 2d6 or d12. Rewriting the Agility tables so they make more sense and are more intuitive. Reworking or removing some skills that add more to the complexity than to the game itself (Piling On? Pro? They're not on ANY team's starting roster for Mork's sake!). Getting rid of the Desperate Measures deck and some of the more esoteric Inducements.

Blood Bowl needs to be shorter
If "Simpler"'s the big one, this one's the tougher one. A Blood Bowl games take 2 hours. Between veterans. On a good day. Without breaks. Not with my friend Manu. Not against Dwarves. With newcomers, it's often closer to 3 hours, and we lose quite a few on their very first game. Games today are tighter, more streamlined than those designed in the '80s. There needs to be a way to fit more Blood Bowl in a game night's time.

Maybe it's including an official BB7 variant in the box (with the field printed on the reverse of the main one?). Maybe it's introducing "Action tokens" that limit the number of players you can play each turn instead of playing all of them. Maybe it's finding a clever way to speed up team setup before a kick-off. Maybe it's simply removing/changing the kick-off table results that take forever to resolve (Perfect Defence, Pitch Invasion anyone?)

Nobody's saying Blood bowl should be a 20 minutes "filler" game, but making it so it reliably takes AT THE VERY MOST 2 hours (preferably a bit less) from setup to tear down is a sound, sound proposition. After all, something happened in 1994 called the "Turnover rule" that sped things up a lot, and I don't think anyone's looking back.

Blood Bowl can be awesomer
Heresy. It's already so awesome, right? Yes, yes it is (else I wouldn't be posting a rambling post on a semi-obscure forum on the unreleased new edition of a game, now would I?). But... why not? Why resist the urge to reinforce it's atmosphere and humor?

This is where Specialist Games can knock themselves out with some fresh ideas of their fancy. This could mean new teams (maybe), new (simple, elegant) skills, new player types (I saw somewhere a writeup for a lovely Halfling catcher), what not. Everybody loves when a Trolls eat a goblin (even though it takes at least three dice rolls just to get to that part, and a lot more after that for the actual goblin throw), maybe now they get peckish enough for a lineorc or an opponent once in a while? A few new coaching staff including the waterboy? Some snazzy player trading mechanic between teams?

Let's not get carried away with this one, but sometimes a fresh coat of paint helps make things more alive.

A heartfelt plea
This would by no means be a small undertaking. Disturbing any delicate BB mechanic will upset the finely tuned balance built over 30 years of intense gameplay. But even small, simple improvements could have tremendous effects on the game's accessibility. Plus, the community will get a brand new opportunity to bicker over balance! (and brand new members of the community to do it!)

I'm relatively convinced we're NOT going to get a new edition of Blood Bowl any time soon after this one, and this means NOW is the time to seize the opportunity. It'll take some courage (I see the pitchforks from here), but is it too big of a price to pay for another 30 years of longevity for this gem of a game, and for the joy of playing with my sons for years to come?

Cheers, regards, respect.

[dode74]

"Accessibility" is the bane of the non-casual gamer. Sorry, but I disagree with a lot of the above.

[javascrybe]

"Accessibility" is the bane of the non-casual gamer. Sorry, but I disagree with a lot of the above.

I understand. Not saying "very accessible" or even (god help us) "dumbed down". But attracting new players to a community is NEVER a bad thing, and the fact of the matter is right now that I haven't played Blood Bowl with new players since my old league disbanded. All the players I convinced to play "just one game" stopped after that. And they are NOT casual gamers by ANY stretch of the imagination.

It's incredible just how much of Blood bowl has been balanced over the years by "adding another die roll" or a chart... Jump Up, Pro, Dauntless, the Injury table, Really Stupid, Foul Appearance, etc. Adding complexity, in sum. It's at the very least a "hard sell" for newcomers. Of course I know all of the rules, I've played them enough, but it's not about me, it's about my son (<--shameless emotional appeal).

I'll buy the new box, obviously, whatever they put in it. If it's the exact same Blood Bowl, I'll just marvel at the figures, alone. If it "freshens up", I have a shot at having a new league sprout up at my local gaming store. Or starting a family league once my two sons reach 10.

[Regash]

I've made the same experience with players I tried to lure to Blood Bowl.
The mistake I made was using the full rules.

Let them play a couple of games with basic rules.
Otherwise it's to complicated to grasp in one go.

[javascrybe]

I've made the same experience with players I tried to lure to Blood Bowl.
The mistake I made was using the full rules.

Let them play a couple of games with basic rules.
Otherwise it's to complicated to grasp in one go.

That's what I did. I even used the cardboard references from the 3rd edition base game, with the simplified injury tables, etc. It's not that. It's the 2h/3h timeframe, the "kind of tediousness of moving every player", the "You get a +1 for dodging? why?", the weird kickoff table that takes a few minutes to play out, the whole inducement shopping list when you play your 2nd game, the constant refering to charts and tables, the 75 (!) skills that each need a small paragraph and a few rolls to explain what they do (while still needing an extensive FAQ for situations that doesn't fit in the 7500 words of the skills text).

Blood Bowl's age shows. It was designed in the 80's. So few games of those games still sell and attract well (with the odd exception of "perfectly designed games" like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective).

I want my son to pick up and play "Blood Bowl 50th anniversary edition", and not have it die when the last of the old timers (that's us, folks! ) kicks the bucket.

[ddancer]

I respect your opinion. I do not agree with it.

I loathe BB7. I enjoy the 2 hour game I get to play with my friend. Our league enjoys it as well, given there are usually six other games going on every week.

The complexity of the game is actually a draw for me - I enjoy the nuances of each little thing, how many strategies and skills have a counter.

I will be the first to say, Blood Bowl isn't for everybody - just like any other Hobby.

I would be very dismayed to see the game made less complex or "Dumbed Down" (not meant as an insult, just using the term.)