GW's Triple B League --- TBB WE NEED YOUR VOTES!!!

[Kolja_TBBF]

I haven't been here for a long time but here are my 2cents:
1) No. We tested a slower spp/skill table in the TBBF a coupla years back (replacing appearance fees) and it wasn't much fun, in the end. Getting skills is the most fun part of team building.
2) Whatever, lets say Yes. It does simplify the game mechanics, which is nice. It has to go along with #6, however, or its a No for me. Stacking Piling On with other skills is sick.
3) Yes. I always thought dirty player needed to be toned down to AV only. Right now, a dirtyplayer is very important to have on a team if you are facing a fouling opponent. And don't tell all about the tactics of fouling blah blah blah. It will change BUT there will still be tactics to fouling, perhaps slightly different ones. This also needs PilingOn to be toned down or its a No for me (DP is the anti-PO).
4) No. Aging is fine. Get rid of the first roll, however. You better keep 'virus' on the handicap table or players may not get retired.
5) Undecided. Almost a No simply because I don't like the veterans teams rule that goes along with it. I don't want to see a mechanism that skyrockets teams up to the experienced levels. I prefer a nice, simple handicap of some sort. The cards were simple and fun (but very complex in excecution). The current table is too weak and uneven. This is a plug for the modified TBBF handicap table which strengthens some results and weakens others (see http://www.tbbf.org/houserules.asp)
6) Yes, IF dirty player no longer affects injury. DP is too powerful!
7) Nah, too punishing!
8 Yes, what the hell.

Hmmmm, under the current rules my TBBF team has hovered around 200 for 40 or so games now (within a range of 175-225). It took 13 games of pretty even advancement to get to that TR (200). However, the last few games things have gone very well and so right now they are at 249, their highest ever! It won't last, it never does. The new winnings tables would have killed me, and once you are a veteran team....

In the TBBF, teams are topping out at 200-225 with some going up to 280 for a while and some dropping pretty low for a while, etc. Dwarves go up forever. Teams that avoid playing the dwarves also go up (dwarves are deadly in the right hands). This tells me that player attrition is a major factor in limiting our TRs successfully. Dropping injury mods may affect the attrition quite a lot.

Keeping virus on the table also encourages teams to drop niggling players. Anyway, once you get the rerolls and TR up there, it tends to keep your TR high. Negative winnings rules would help that.

Things I would really want to see, even independently of other changes, is #3 and anything to fix PilingOn on St5+ guys. What I really don't want to see is #1.

I would like to see teams topout at 200. 250 is a bit high, too many stacked skills. The negative winnings alone could fix that.
I don't know what will stop dwarf teams from always topping out 50pts above anyone else....

Kolja

[GalakStarscraper]

I'll keep this updated so I can pass a summary to the BBRC after about a week has passed. Think of it as a super poll. Thanks to everyone who has voted so far.

The GW studio league has started again with their own experimental rules:
http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbo ... ripleB.pdf
However, this line is in the rules for the league:
The new rules are

designed to remove the patches added to the rules in recent years, and if they prove successful will become official in future rules releases.

It should be added that Andy came on TBB to say he should have said "will maybe become official"

link to their league standings (they've currently played 69 games with 29 coaches in 6 weeks): http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbowl/league.asp

So let's get your feedback on the 8 major changes to see what you think to pass along to the powers that be.

Vote Yes/Undecided/No for the Bugman's rule changes
1 ) Advanced SPP table
2 ) No injury mods change
3 ) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
4 ) No more aging
5 ) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6 ) Piling On changed to AV reroll
7 ) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

1 ) 1 Yes / 1 Undecided / 67 No
2 ) 13 Yes / 18 Undecided / 38 No
3 ) 21 Yes / 10 Undecided / 38 No
4 ) 27 Yes / 14 Undecided / 28 No
5 ) 12 Yes / 16 Undecided / 41 No
6 ) 49 Yes / 9 Undecided / 11 No
7 ) 9 Yes / 18 Undecided / 42 No
8 ) 42 Yes / 5 Undecided / 22 No

Updated for arkeo, Azurus, Bevan, biso, blanchprez, Boss, brianbbj, campaigner, Chaos Dwarf, Chris, Christer, Dangerous Dave, Dark Lord, Darkson, darthnoir, Dave, Deacon, Dragoonkin, Equos, Evolve to Anarchism, Galak, Goblingrin, Gorbad, GorTex, Grumble, IanW, Indigo, Ithilkir, jaylazer, Kamikaze Rudy, Kolja_TBBF, l_dauguet, lackey, ljm, Lucien Swift, LurkingGrue, martin, McDeth, Melfaxis, Mestari, Methusalah, Mickex, mirascael, mort legosi, Mrinprophet, Munkey, Narkotic, neoliminal, noodle, Norse, Odium Khan, plasmoid, Puckohue, rwould, SBG, Sceadeau, SeanNewboy, Skummy, sixpack595, slackman, Sputnik, Stout Youngblood, Thadrin, Tim, Torg, torpor, Tukakamin_IV, Xtreme, and Yavatol votes to date.

Galak

[ScottyBoneman]

Vote Yes/Undecided/No for the Bugman's rule changes
1 ) Advanced SPP table - NO
I really liked the comment that 'if I wanted effort with very little reward I would go to work

2 ) No injury mods change - YES
Not a bad plan, but not huge problem for me either way

3 ) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only. -YES
Again not huge problem for me either way

4 ) No more aging -YES
Sort of, if there Aging was no ageing roll for the first 2 skills, but just as likely to strike on the 3rd as now I would like it. But between unchanged and gone, I would chose gone.

5 ) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR -YES
This needs fixing badly. Some Handicap benefits just aren't strong enough to to help out. Another thing that I have not seen discussed is with the cards gone it is easier to hold the ball and not score to run out the clock. I saw that a lot less when there was one card left unseen.

I also seem to be in the minor that felt if a team faced a team with 30 better TR, then they deserve an extra MVP to make up for their dead guys and serious injuries. You can really see in the online leagues that this encourages dodging by being 'unavailable'.

6 ) Piling On changed to AV reroll - YES
Big Guys and Piling on is gruesome- add limited Fouling to the mix and it is lethal.

7 ) New winnings table 15k bands - Undecided

8 ) Negative winnings rules - NO
Not strongly against, but doesn't seem like the best way to solve the problem. Seems to punish runs of bad luck.

[Thadrin]

I continue to be amazed that people don't get that the no injury mods thing is a BAD thing for the game, reduces the number of casualties and generally is yet another move towards fricking Elfball.

I don't see how its such a huge simplification of the rules. All I see is the balance of the game getting messed about again, at the cost of the hitting teams.

[Dragoonkin]

I see a lot of people voting "YES" and then saying "I don't care either way". That's not "YES THIS NEEDS / I WANT THIS TO BE CHANGED" that's "UNDECIDED WHICH IS BETTER", people. Don't say "YES" when you don't care which method is used. That's misleading.

[morph]

Suppose I should throw in my opinions...

1. No - I like advancing
2. No - I've never seen this as a problem
3. Undecided
4. Yes - There are better ways to curb team growth
5. Undecided - I want a handicap table, jsut make it better
6. No - makes low AV teams even weaker vs. the skill
7. No - no real need for change
8. Yes - Adds a bit of fun plus curbs high team growth better than ageing

[morph]

I continue to be amazed that people don't get that the no injury mods thing is a BAD thing for the game, reduces the number of casualties and generally is yet another move towards fricking Elfball.

But if piling on is changed to a re-roll that makes the skill less effective against high AV teams. More lower strength players will get the skill and we'll all be jumping on elves. So lower AV teams will become weaker and we'll move away from elf ball. So you could say it balances out... maybe...

[Longshot]

Vote Yes/Undecided/No for the Bugman's rule changes
1 ) Advanced SPP table
2 ) No injury mods change
3 ) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
4 ) No more aging
5 ) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6 ) Piling On changed to AV reroll
7 ) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

Well, here is my cent on that.
Such a big problem after my holidays...

Well, first of all i remenber a poll where most of coaches only wanted few and simple change ...and what is that? a new game...
I am fed up with always trying to convince my players with some new rules, testing them and them changing them again.
Enough is enough!
We only need minor change. We dont want to go back to the 3rd Ed.
The actual LRB seems quite good (see all the tourny around the world!).

So here is my vote:
1-No
2-No
3-undecided(foul action is always a problem..)
4-No
5-Undecided (need some playtesting but seems good)
6-Undecided ( there is lot of other possibilities, Make it a Trait Or only the half of the strengh should be used....)
7-No
8-Yes

So they want their player alive and make all the blood out of Bloodbowl?
ok, then, they play Bowl, not Bloodbowl...

It is the same for their change on stunty...stupid change IMO.
Let keep some dead players! let keep some survivors with 5 or more skills! there are the champions of the fields! lets keep ageing cos it makes it balanced! Lets keep BLOODbowl!*

Please, stop changing the game everytime,or coaches will left as quick as they cameback to the game...

[McDeth]

yup i'm concerned that the majority have voted yes for this piling on adjustment, like i said before the day a halfling can pile on effectively as a Mummy is just not feasible

[Thadrin]

I continue to be amazed that people don't get that the no injury mods thing is a BAD thing for the game, reduces the number of casualties and generally is yet another move towards fricking Elfball.

But if piling on is changed to a re-roll that makes the skill less effective against high AV teams. More lower strength players will get the skill and we'll all be jumping on elves. So lower AV teams will become weaker and we'll move away from elf ball. So you could say it balances out... maybe...

The point of the change in Piling on is to nerf the big guys' use of the skill while everyone else stays roughly the same. I'd be just as happy capping the skill at +3 to the roll (and it should only be usable by ST3 or more players).

The problem I have is that Mighty Blow suddenly becomes 30% less effective (reduction in average caualties versus AV8). I'm really not interested in Piling on anyway. I pile on to one line elf, there's a hole in my line and all the elf's mates dive through, mucking my defence up good and proper. There is NO reason for that change.

The injury roll system isn't broken, this dumbing down will not fix anything, but WILL cause a lot of problems. Its a BAD idea.
I'm not even starting on the idiocy of the "Stunties get -1 AV across the board" part of the plan.

[noodle]

Good point...

There are so many ways to sort piling on I don't know why it needs changing like this... Though I originally voted "yes" because a) I thought it could be stacked with mighty blow and b) its better than the current LRB error

But why not just declare before rolling? Add strength divided by two rounding up? Add strength up to a maximum of +3/+4 whatever...

Even in its current state piling on does not dominate our league

Ah well. I would like to echo the LESS CHANGES sentiments. Its a nightmare for commissioners like me.... Changes simple p*** people off....

[Longshot]

That the same for me noodle!

Andy Hall say that it is a good time to be a BB player...
But it is starting to be hard to be a Commish....
And then players will not have any 'Time of BB' at all....

LESS CHANGES

[christer]

"Here are the results of the FUMBBL jury..."

Malta... One point..

No, wait.. wrong paper.

Vote Yes/Undecided/No for the Bugman's rule changes
1 ) Advanced SPP table
2 ) No injury mods change
3 ) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
4 ) No more aging
5 ) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6 ) Piling On changed to AV reroll
7 ) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

1) 26 Yes / 16 Undecided / 104 No
2) 53 Yes / 28 Undecided / 92 No
3) 50 Yes / 24 Undecided / 63 No
4) 76 Yes / 10 Undecided / 76 No
5) 33 Yes / 41 Undecided / 61 no
6) 91 Yes / 10 Undecided / 51 No
7) 13 Yes / 21 Undecided / 79 No
8) 31 Yes / 11 Undecided / 117 No

These numbers are prone to minor changes, so the current data can be viewed at the FUMBBL polls page.

-- Christer

[sean newboy]

So basically 4 is the only point still up in the air.

[Trambi]

Vote Yes/Undecided/No for the Bugman's rule changes
1 ) Advanced SPP table
2 ) No injury mods change
3 ) No more auto +1 to AV for fouling, remove IGMEOY and Referee rolls, eject only on AV doubles, Dirty Player is for AV only.
4 ) No more aging
5 ) No more handicap table ... new tables for game effects based on TR
6 ) Piling On changed to AV reroll
7 ) New winnings table 15k bands
8 ) Negative winnings rules

1_ Yes, if you make it complete until 7 experience rolls (251+ 6, 400+/500+ 7)
2_ Yes
3_ Yes
4_ Yes
5_ Undefined (I haven't read them complety)
6_ No Humain Blitzer with Piling On as a efficient as Ogre No !!
7_ Undefined
8_ Yes

Globally yes