Talk Fantasy Football

The following "imbalances", if such they may be called, were easily discovered in practical play (just 12 games), are mostly predictable from the rules, and thus I conclude that they are an intentional part of the game's design:

- Orx Guards gain experience on average significantly faster than any other player-type. They start with 3+ Strength, and are quite a bit more mobile than Forge Father Guards. The Gobbos are very mobile (for Jacks), handy for adding Threat Hexes when Slamming.

- Veer-Myn Strikers gain experience on average faster than their counterparts on other teams (but not nearly as fast as Orx Guards). Not surprising - it's easier for them to throw 3 and 4-point Strikes because of their higher MA.

- Gobbo Jacks gain experience on average faster than their counterparts on other teams (albeit not at a particularly fast rate). This is not surprising, they throw the Strikes.

- All Guards approach invulnerability as they gain experience (Keeper, Can't Feel a thing). This makes Slamming (or Stomping) them less rewarding, so they tend to get left alone (unless they need to be pushed out of the way), thus further increasing their aura of invulnerability.

- Forge Fathers are the squishiest team (and FF Strikers are the squishiest player-type).

- Orx & Gobbos are the best protected team.

This all has implications for gain, retention and loss of skills, especially in a long-running or "perpetual" environment. I don't anticipate that it would be a problem in shorter league or tourney formats, where no doubt most DB will be played. The point (number of games) at which these "imbalances" become a problem (if indeed it is a problem) would be determined by play-testing in proper multi-player leagues (not something I am likely to achieve on my own). Provided MVPs (Star Players) are accurately priced, they may provide adequate balance on a match-by-match basis (however, underdog teams fielding MVPs and Free Agents necessarily slow down their acquisition of experience, compounding the skill "imbalance").

Hope that helps and all the best.

I re-read the FAQs at quirkworthy.com (the designer's website), and realised I was playing another rule wrong. This is the rule concerning scattered balls. If it is your rush, and the ball scatters to one of your Strikers or Jacks, and he fails to catch it, your rush ends unless the ball is ultimately caught by one of your players (i.e. it is a turnover in BB terms). This is a particularly harsh rule, as Jacks cannot catch a scattered ball without using a coaching die (ditto for Strikers in an opposing threat hex).

This has some quite big implications for positioning when slamming or stealing the ball from an opposing ball carrier (you have to try not only to sack the ball carrier, but to avoid the turnover). It makes a doubled steal look like a good option if you can manage it.

The rules are written almost without exceptions. This takes some getting used to, compared to most games, but is clear and simple (if brutal).

As I slowly get more experienced with the game (and I start to understand the rules properly!), my games seem to be getting longer (although full-length games are still rare). The longer games are probably because I am putting more effort into defensive positioning.

The "dice rolling contest" aspect of the game remains huge. Played a game recently (Orx vs. Humies) which went the full 14 turns, and was won by the Humies by just 1 point. A good contest. But only 7 or 9 (I lost count) Strikes were scored in 28 turns of DB. This was because the overwhelming majority of Strike attempts failed (typically at 3/4 odds). This time, both teams failed nearly equally. More commonly, however, the "dice rolling contest" favours one side or the other, leading to an early landslide win.

All the best.

Interjecting here to say that I'm following your accounts with vivid interest, Smeborg, thank you for this.

javascrybe wrote:Interjecting here to say that I'm following your accounts with vivid interest, Smeborg, thank you for this.

My pleasure.

Also watching this with interest, good stuff Smeborg - keep it up.

Posts will likely be few for a couple of weeks, as I am captain of Team Kiwi in the Australian State Champs in Adelaide (weekend after next), so concentrating my time and energies on that at the moment. But I may still find time for a game or two, I have a couple of possible opponents.

All the best.

A strange dynamic of the game:

- Players that gain experience will also gain protection from being killed (+Speed, Didn't Feel a Thing, Grizzled, Lucky/Really Lucky).

- Guards and Jacks that gain experience do not get much better at killing by Slamming (only +Strength, which Orx and FF cannot get, plus Lucky/Really Lucky, which are likely to be late skills). Stomping with Did That Hurt? is the other way to get better at killing (by 1 die).

So I believe a match between 2 very experienced teams would produce few, if any deaths, whereas matches between rookie teams will produce plenty. Odd that.

All the best.

Introduced a friend to the game last night. I randomised the starting teams, I was Orx and home team, he was Humies.

The Humies won in 5 turns, helped by that foul card "The Ball Shatters". But I think they would have won anyway. The Gobbos failed 4 strikes altogether.

I think it may be a good idea for completely new players to take Humies. They perform decently, but more importantly, their stats are the easiest to remember (all 4+ apart from armour).

There is a prospect of a (very) small league starting in a month or two. It would be nice to test the league rules properly.

All the best.

positioning has a very minor part to play
you can follow up and get hit 1/6 times or you can position your guys to not get hit and take it on a rebound instead.

Oryx cannot catch a scatter so there is no real reason to hit a ball carrier. try the steal.

ps. a player 26 hexes can get hit by a scatter (after a few bounces) and cause a turn over

Smeborg wrote:I re-read the FAQs at quirkworthy.com (the designer's website), and realised I was playing another rule wrong. This is the rule concerning scattered balls. If it is your rush, and the ball scatters to one of your Strikers or Jacks, and he fails to catch it, your rush ends unless the ball is ultimately caught by one of your players (i.e. it is a turnover in BB terms). This is a particularly harsh rule, as Jacks cannot catch a scattered ball without using a coaching die (ditto for Strikers in an opposing threat hex).

This has some quite big implications for positioning when slamming or stealing the ball from an opposing ball carrier (you have to try not only to sack the ball carrier, but to avoid the turnover). It makes a doubled steal look like a good option if you can manage it.

The rules are written almost without exceptions. This takes some getting used to, compared to most games, but is clear and simple (if brutal).

daloonieshaman wrote:positioning has a very minor part to play
you can follow up and get hit 1/6 times or you can position your guys to not get hit and take it on a rebound instead.

Oryx cannot catch a scatter so there is no real reason to hit a ball carrier. try the steal.

ps. a player 26 hexes can get hit by a scatter (after a few bounces) and cause a turn over

It is by no means as simple as that, I believe.

Once a Guard gets the "Keeper" skill (which is likely to be early in his development), he can pick up and catch balls, albeit he is very bad at so doing (-1 die). Thus an Orx Guard with Keeper would have to spend 2 Coaching Dice to get a 1 in 3 chance of catching a bouncing ball... (otherwise your turn is ended).

Even without Keepers, I have found it matters quite a bit where you push the downed ball carrier (to give the best chance of the ball not scattering to one of your Strikers or Jacks). Also, the decision whether to follow up or not can quite significantly change the odds of the ball scattering (via the Guard) to one of your Strikers or Jacks.

Some teams are good at Slamming, some are better at Stealing. Orx may have a better chance if they Slam the ball carrier with a Guard (5 dice at 3+) rather than attempting a Steal with a Gobbo (3 dice at 3+). A good Slam may put the ball carrier in the dugout as well as freeing the ball (a very important consideration if the ball carrier is near your 3&4-point Strike Zone). Furthermore, a successful Steal which does not get a doubled success leads to a scattered ball, little different to a good Slam. Veer-Myn Strikers are the best Stealers (4 dice at 3+). Whether to try a Slam or a Steal may also depend on the number of Threat Hexes you are able to add to the proceedings. Lastly, whether you want to Steal may well depend on whether you can do so from behind (to avoid Slamback).

The skilll "A Safe Pair of Hands" would no doubt play a significant role in catching scattered balls, especially in your own turn. That's 2 dice for a Striker, without using Coaching Dice.

Hope that helps.

I personally find the scatter ball turnover mechanic both counter intuitive and a penalty on solid playing.

To down a Human Striker you need to double success on a Slam. Which means you realistically need 2 threat hexes on them to get a decent % chance. Which means you've now trebled your turnover chance.....

Bad mechanic, and for me it singularly (and sadly) ruins an otherwise pretty interesting game

My 2p

you only need one coaching die as it is pulled after all modifers

Podfrey wrote:I personally find the scatter ball turnover mechanic both counter intuitive and a penalty on solid playing.

To down a Human Striker you need to double success on a Slam. Which means you realistically need 2 threat hexes on them to get a decent % chance. Which means you've now trebled your turnover chance.....

Bad mechanic, and for me it singularly (and sadly) ruins an otherwise pretty interesting game

My 2p

I agree with your sentiment. However, if you have 2 threat hexes on the ball carrier, 1 or both will disappear when you knock him down (although the players may still be in danger of receiving the scattered ball). I find the whole ball scatter sequence can be long and tedious, especially if the ball is spilled near a bunch of players (and/or near the edge of the board). It can take a long time to resolve (worse than the equivalent in BB). And the end result can be extreme luck (one or the other team ending up with the ball and ending or continuing the Rush). There are 2 Event Cards which can make ball scatter even more wild (one means you have to scatter again when the ball comes to rest, the other means you have to roll 2 dice for scatter distance).

It will go nowhere. Jake has surrounded himself with yes men and outright refuses to take another look at iffy things in the game. Love the game, hate the omnipotence.