Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

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mattgslater
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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by mattgslater »

Grumbledook wrote:@ ShriekBob, I'd go stand firm first, keeps him useful and involves no dice rolls, it can only be cancelled and you can't fail (cause turnover) using it, compared to break tackle which fails at least 1/6 times and you have Loner making reroll use dubious and half the time worthless as well
Yeah. Stand Firm is terribly underrated. I'd say overall it's the #2 coolest S skill, and it's not close. On the BON it's distinctly better, because it combos with Tentacles, Foul Appearance, Disturbing Presence and Really Stupid. When My BoN gets two more Casualties or an MVP, he's definitely getting Stand Firm! On a Nurgle Warrior, it's good too: it gives you a Flesh Golem on steroids. Still, it's probably a #2 or #3 selection, depending on whether you're giving that Warrior Guard.

Stand Firm also works well in multiples, on a highly-developed team: if you make the mental note that every player gets a positioning skill (SF, SS or Fend) in his first two or three improvements, you'll get there eventually. I don't know how far the Orc analogy goes, but my experience with Orcs is that having 7x Stand Firm just gives people fits. They start getting block-shy, and that's when guys start getting hurt, because they won't make the hits they need to make in order to keep from getting corralled. Spamming Dodge doesn't do this: sure, you're not so likely to knock 'em down if they all have Dodge, but you can get some control of the situation with a push. Breathing room, an escape route, whatever. With Stand Firm, you have to knockdown, and even then you don't get to follow.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by Grumbledook »

big fan of it on chaos dwarfs, love that it isn't a double any more

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by ShriekBob »

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to follow suite and take Stand Firm/Guard/Break Tackle in that order, for the very reason you mentioned. More useful skills that synergise without the Beast actually having to do anything.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by Marlow »

Grumbledook wrote: @ Marlow, you seem to like typing loose when you mean lose ;]
Thanks. I am not very good at spelling in English.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by mattgslater »

Two games into the Nurgle experiment, and I'm in total agreement with some of the things I've heard. These guys are tough, and they make ball-carrying hard, but they're a real risk-management challenge. I've played Orcs and Wood Elves, both rookie teams (my roster didn't change between the two games), and I've ended six turns on the first die roll. I have two ties (1-1 and 2-2), Block on a Rotter and a Warrior, a Warrior with 5 SPP, a Warrior with 4, and a Pestigor with 5, plus two on the Beast. I've been a little lucky with the SPP, with both MVPs going to Warriors: now I only have one 0-SPP Warrior. The Wood Elves laughed at my Tentacles, but those same Tentacles held the Orc Thrower in place for a Cas the next turn. Neither Foul Appearance nor Disturbing Presence has actually done anything in terms of causing rolls to fail (important ones, anyway), but both opponents have game-planned for both skills. So far, I have yet to suffer a Cas (5-0 Cas so far), so Decay hasn't become a problem yet. I have 90k in the bank: I was originally planning on taking a Pestigor, but my experience is starting to push me toward saving for a TRR. My next opponent will either be a rookie team or a youngish Ogre team: either way, I'll be facing TV1M.

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by ShriekBob »

In my, admittedly limited, experience to date I have found that if your opponent doesn't plan for foul appearance they can end up having a really bad day, same with disturbing presence. I good opponent won't let these skills effect there turnover chances, but that's fine, that's a secondary to there actual use, which is to shut down your opponents choices by making them play around them. As has been said before, you use them to funnel your opponent more than for there active ability. Giving them the choice to be funnelled, or to fail.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by mattgslater »

OK, a Ctrl+F search through this thread brought up nothing on inducements. Craig's article didn't have anything either. TV 1.12M team, 12 players, 2 Pests, everything else, 2 TRR, up against TV 1.67M Skaven team, including a Block/Guard RO(US), a Thrower with AG4, Big Hand and Nerves, and a ST3/AG5 Gutter Runner.

What are some of the best inducements you've found for Nurgle? I figure the first Extra Training is a no-brainer with a 2 TRR Nurgle team, but after that? I'm asking this question in the broad sense. For this match, I'm taking Extra Training, Max and Grashnak.

Edit: if you want to know, I won the match, largely thanks to the inducements.

What a fascinating team this is to play. I think I'm going to run Nurgle as my primary team in a couple of seasons. Thanks, ShriekBob!

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by number6 »

mattgslater wrote: What are some of the best inducements you've found for Nurgle? I figure the first Extra Training is a no-brainer with a 2 TRR Nurgle team, but after that? I'm asking this question in the broad sense. For this match, I'm taking Extra Training, Max and Grashnak.
I just played my 4th game going in with 2 - 1 - 0 (the tie shoulda been a win, but I got greedy blocking unecessarily on my initial drive).
I went up against a Skaven team that is winning up the league (newly started league). His Gutter Runners are quickly becoming Blodging/Sidesteppers and I had 130K in inducements to work with. So being rather fond of Chainsaws I went with Max Spleenripper.
Don't have anything close to a developed team yet so Blodgers present a serious problem. I figured the Chainsaw would be a good way to get in some shots on the Blodgers without having to worry about assists or hoping for some good block-dice luck.
Sadly d6 dice luck was not in the cards as Max failed to break 7AV and in absolute terror rats swarmed Max and KOed him quickly. I probably should have provided Max with some cover, but the opportunity presented itself and those rats move fast.

In retrospect I'll just take the Extra Re-roll for an initial Inducement ... but chainsaws are just so much fun :D

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by Smeborg »

Marlow - the reasons I do not use Rotters as Runners is threefold: (1) the extra movement on a Pestigor is vital for scoring, (2) Horns is a great help in getting out of trouble or punching through to score, and (3) Rotters cannot easily retain skills because of Decay (already mentioned by someone else above).

Matt - the best inducement I have found for Nurgle is 2 Babes. Sounds boring, I know, but with median AV8 and no Thick Skull, Nurgle are vulnerable to K.O.s.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by SunDevil »

I just wanted to pop in and say how much I have been enjoying this thread. Very solid advice on a tough team. A player in one of our local leagues is playing these guys and I have referred him to this thread.

When I get to Nurgle, I will definitely be going with Smeborg's deny-on-defense theory of gameplay, not only because it sounds effective but it would provide a different style of strategy other than the usual bash or dash.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by Smeborg »

SunDevil - I'm glad you're enjoying this thread. I am enjoying it immensely too. Thanks to ShriekBob and others for a really interesting discussion.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by mattgslater »

I have come to a realization.

Nurgle become competitive after three or four games.

My Nurgle team has played three games, with two ties and a win. TV 1.18M with 80k in the bank. I only have two Pestigors, but I will buy a third one (and go to 1.26M) if I don't face a team with a TV of 1.28M-1.35M. I have two Rotters with Block, a Warrior with Block, a Pestigor with Block and a Pestigor with Extra Arms. Let's compare this team to an Orc team that developed similarly after three games, shall we?

This Nurgle team has earned 160k. An Orc team that started like my Nurgle team would have 4x BOB and 1x Troll: a popular build of that sort has 4x Blitzer, 1x Thrower, 1x Lineman, 2x TRR and 10k banked. 160k+10k = Apoth, TRR. Five skills in three games sounds about right: that's either Block, Accurate or Leader on the Thrower, plus probably three skills on Blitzers and one on a BOB.

So, by contrast:
* The Orcs have 3x TRR, Nurgle has 2. Advantage: Orcs, by a lot.
* The Orcs have an Apothecary and 5x +AV, Nurgle have a Reserve, 80k in the bank, and 7x Regenerate. Advantage: Nurgle, but not by much.
* Nurgle have Decay Rotters and Nurgle's Rot on everybody. Advantage: I don't know.
* Both have 4x BOB and 1x Troll, and one BOB with a skill. Nurgle's BOB really wants Block, because his team is starved for it, while the Orc BOB could take Guard instead. Nurgle's guys all have Foul Appearance and Disturbing Presence, while the Troll also has Tentacles. Advantage: Nurgle, by a lot.
* Both have a ball-guy. Nurgle's one has +MA, Horns, and picks up/catches on a 2. Orcs' guy can re-roll failed PU and Pass attempts, and has a skill. Advantage: Orcs.
* Both have a key blitzer. Nurgle's one has Horns, and Orcs' one has a G or S skill. Advantage: Nurgle.
* Of the remaining four players, the Orcs net +1MA on three guys, Block on one of those guys and a G or S skill on the other two. The fourth Orc is just like a Rotter once you've factored out the AV, Decay and Nurgle's Rot.

So, what would you rather have: a better front seven, or a better backfield? The answer is the backfield, but by how much, really?

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What is Nuffle's view? Through a window, two-by-three. He peers through snake eyes.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and tackle zones: Reddened blades of grass.
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by Carnis »

mattgslater wrote:I have come to a realization.

Nurgle become competitive after three or four games.

My Nurgle team has played three games, with two ties and a win. TV 1.18M with 80k in the bank. I only have two Pestigors, but I will buy a third one (and go to 1.26M) if I don't face a team with a TV of 1.28M-1.35M. I have two Rotters with Block, a Warrior with Block, a Pestigor with Block and a Pestigor with Extra Arms. Let's compare this team to an Orc team that developed similarly after three games, shall we?

This Nurgle team has earned 160k. An Orc team that started like my Nurgle team would have 4x BOB and 1x Troll: a popular build of that sort has 4x Blitzer, 1x Thrower, 1x Lineman, 2x TRR and 10k banked. 160k+10k = Apoth, TRR. Five skills in three games sounds about right: that's either Block, Accurate or Leader on the Thrower, plus probably three skills on Blitzers and one on a BOB.

So, by contrast:
* The Orcs have 3x TRR, Nurgle has 2. Advantage: Orcs, by a lot.
* The Orcs have an Apothecary and 5x +AV, Nurgle have a Reserve, 80k in the bank, and 7x Regenerate. Advantage: Nurgle, but not by much.
* Nurgle have Decay Rotters and Nurgle's Rot on everybody. Advantage: I don't know.
* Both have 4x BOB and 1x Troll, and one BOB with a skill. Nurgle's BOB really wants Block, because his team is starved for it, while the Orc BOB could take Guard instead. Nurgle's guys all have Foul Appearance and Disturbing Presence, while the Troll also has Tentacles. Advantage: Nurgle, by a lot.
* Both have a ball-guy. Nurgle's one has +MA, Horns, and picks up/catches on a 2. Orcs' guy can re-roll failed PU and Pass attempts, and has a skill. Advantage: Orcs.
* Both have a key blitzer. Nurgle's one has Horns, and Orcs' one has a G or S skill. Advantage: Nurgle.
* Of the remaining four players, the Orcs net +1MA on three guys, Block on one of those guys and a G or S skill on the other two. The fourth Orc is just like a Rotter once you've factored out the AV, Decay and Nurgle's Rot.

So, what would you rather have: a better front seven, or a better backfield? The answer is the backfield, but by how much, really?
So in addition to the additional reroll, the orcs have 3 more guard, more AV, more block, which is countered with DP/foul appearance and tentacles.. And the +AV is better than regen on the field. I do like nurgle, it's an ok team but by no means has any advantage over orcs after 4-5 games.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by ShriekBob »

I wouldn't say they have an advantange, but considering the potency of Tentacles, DP, Foul Appearence and Regeneration, I wouldn't say it is any worse either. I would say its different. I also think if you attend to play Nurgle like Orcs your gonna end up finding yourself a bit dissappointed.

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Re: Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

Post by Smeborg »

Grum - I have found that not giving Block to the Primary Pestigor Runner works just fine for me. I agree that Block is a fine skill on a Runner. The question is whether it is the best early choice on a player who is in permanent skill deficit (especially when it comes to moving the ball).

Matt - I find that Nurgle can struggle early on against bash teams, especially against Orcs. I find that once Nurgle get Block or Wrestle on (say) 5 or 6 players, then things start to get better. Otherwise, I would say that Nurgle are just as good, perhaps slightly better, at zero games as at (say) 3-4 games (because, other things being equal, most other teams will be skilling up faster).

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