Buyer beware

[Darkson]

But on the other hand, these compagnies will never earn anny money on those projects again because they promised it was a "limited edition" model in there range.
So financially... nothing is wrong, they made there proffit and whent on to other minis to sell.

Incorrect - finacially, something is wrong. If I buy [example, as I haven't] what I think is a genuine limited Impact fig from eBay, and it turns up as a badly casted fig, who do you think I will blame? The ebayer? No, I'll blame Impact for making a poor fig, go onto forums to bitch and lose them customers.
Sure, if the ebayer had said "this is a recast", I wouldn't have a problem with Impact, but they don't, because if they did, they'd be subject to the full penalty of the law.

[Olaf the Stout]

Kwek, throughout the whole discussion you have been portraying re-casters as gallant Robin Hood style characters. You seem to see them as lovable rogues who are doing the community a great service in making out of production models available again.

However, in reality they are little more than lowlife profiteers attempting to pass on their often shoddy imitations as the real thing. Whilst recasting is not the 'crime of the century' it is still a crime.

You also argue that buying recasts is fine as long as the buyer is aware the figure is a recast. How often do the recasters advertise as such? As an example I don't think any of the suspicious ebayers exposed on this site have.

I can only speak for myself but I would rather own original models even if I have to pay a little more. Whether that makes me prissy or nerdy so be it. However, if someone knowingly purchases a recast doesn't that make them as morally bankrupt as the recaster or just plain stupid?

Exactly! Most, if not all, recasters aren't doing it out of love for Blood Bowl or so that other people might be able to get their hands on a model that is out of print. No, they are doing it to make money, nothing more than that.

To make matters worse, I have never once seen a recaster sell their minis clearly labelled as recasts. Instead they try and pass them off to unsuspecting buyers as the real thing, when they are usually just a poor imitation.

So not only are they making copies of something they did not make in the first place, they are then selling them to people without telling them that what they are buying isn't the original product.

That's just not right in my opinion.

Olaf the Stout

[JaM]

Well, I agree with Kwek (well, most of his points).

However: I do want to know if the figure is a recast. I'd be mad if I thought I'd buy an original, but was send a recast.

Still he's talking about OOP, OLD, miniatures. Not new ones like the fabulous Rolljordan froggy team. That are minis you can buy, now, online, without too much of a hassle. Of course you should buy them there ! No one is questioning that.

Also, who here DOESNT own an illegal copy or dl from a dvd or movie ? Did you pay full retail for all of the software on your computer ?
It doesnt make the recasters less "bad" perhaps, but just understand that as long as there is a market, someone out there will copy stuff. And we are all guilty of using cheap copies. Well, I am anyway (I do have some copied software. Sorry

So what I mean is, dont give Kwek all the flames here, just decide for yourself if it's really worth the hassle to get worked up about all this, IP infrigment or not. Flame the guy who puts it up on ebay, not the "messenger" (Kwek in this topic).

Now, I''ll go back to paint my original 3rd edition WE, who are indeed kinda horrid, mini-wise.

Cheers,

JaM

[cyagen]

Just trying to broaded the debate here, but would it be possible for any of our favorite BB legal casters to actually get a licence from GW to recast 2ed figs? I know, the licence fees would probably negate any chance of profit...

I do not know for you but I would be more than willing to buy them from Impact, legally, than from ebay without knowing is they are legit.

Not all the 2ed would be candidates, but it would be nice to get some 2ed elfs, Skavens and BG....

[Thadrin]

Also, who here DOESNT own an illegal copy or dl from a dvd or movie ?

Um...me?

Seriously, this is like the ridiculous arguments pushing the legalisation of filesharing.

Someone has created something. They have earned the right to determine how it is distributed and to earn from their creation.

[Darkson]

Just trying to broaded the debate here, but would it be possible for any of our favorite BB legal casters to actually get a licence from GW to recast 2ed figs?

GW won't allow it (it's been asked before).

[Fondu77]

Also, who here DOESNT own an illegal copy or dl from a dvd or movie ?

Um...me?

Seriously, this is like the ridiculous arguments pushing the legalisation of filesharing.

Someone has created something. They have earned the right to determine how it is distributed and to earn from their creation.

+1

[JaM]

Also, who here DOESNT own an illegal copy or dl from a dvd or movie ?

Um...me?

Seriously, this is like the ridiculous arguments pushing the legalisation of filesharing.

Someone has created something. They have earned the right to determine how it is distributed and to earn from their creation.

Yes, and I agree. However, if the compagny (GW in this case) doesnt distribute nor creates that figure (some OOP 2nd edition figurine), then what harm is there in creating a copy for your own use, or for that of a friend ?

I am not talking here about mass-producing recasts, I am talking here about recasting a figure for the enjoyment of yourself and a few others.

And Thadrin, I am sure you've used cassette-tapes to "copy" music from the radio, to play them in your walkman. Or taped an LP, back in the days.
Or, perhaps, you're too young to have done that, that might also be the case. But I was just using some kind of example.
If not, well, you're better than me in that case. I still have those tapes somewhere in some basket... No idea where my tape-deck went, however .

[Grumbledook]

doing that is illegal as well

if someone recasts something to just use for themselves then that is a fair comparison to recording music off the radio or recording a show off the tv

recasting for resale for profit on ebay or anywhere is a different level

[Fondu77]

recasting for resale for profit on ebay or anywhere is a different level

If not released anymore. Seller should send royalties (in a perfect world)to the sculptor nor the company during its lifetime.

IMHO

[Grumbledook]

well that is up to the copyright holder

they can either say no recasts at all, charge a licence fee or take royalties

[TedStriker]

And Thadrin, I am sure you've used cassette-tapes to "copy" music from the radio, to play them in your walkman. Or taped an LP, back in the days.
Or, perhaps, you're too young to have done that, that might also be the case. But I was just using some kind of example.
If not, well, you're better than me in that case. I still have those tapes somewhere in some basket... No idea where my tape-deck went, however .

That was never illegal. It is fair use and is backed by the Sony Betamax case. You did say specifically "copy.... to play them in YOUR walkman". And there is also a tax on each cassette and video cassette sold and paid to the record companies for this exact reason.

So there really is no comparison here. Your example is perfectly legal vs. recasting which is not legal (no gray area about it).

That said, I couldn't spot a recast if my life depended on it, and would be first in line to buy a reasonably priced Zara.

[JaM]

OK, fair enough.

[Master Wang]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GW-Blood-Bowl-2nd ... 7C294%3A50

Looks like that recast might have been thrown in with these goblins.

[kwèk]

Just for the record.

I'm not happy with recasters just doing it for the money. Like you might have concluded out of my other sentences, I'm not really happy with the entire idea of making ridiculous amounths of money on annything that could be bought for a smooth and easy price.
Also, I told you that recasted models should be called "recasts".
I was talking abouth friendly people that recast a low amounth of figurines for the friends that don't have it, and want to have it.
If the guy that originally brought out the figurine was still putting it on the market, I would not buy it annywhere else but there (unless they are asking an awfull lot... wich in most cases is not the case... the prices are pretty fair according to the market).

I started the discussion because the idea of "limited" and "out of print", imho should not excist... and that not all "recasters" are bad - like some of you told us.
Also, if the guys that made the models should keep the models in there range and from time to time do some casting for a large order. (Like asking people if they want to buy the figurine, keeping a list and once the list is full recast the model... for an example) This problem would not excist so much as it is happening now.
In a way you created your own problem. The only thing these recasters are doing is filling in the demand, jumping on an oppurtinity, to make money.
The metal and the recast are not that difficult to do, if you know what you are doing, and if you see that a resurrection gutter runner is sold for 50$ on Ebay, why not recast several of them and earn a buck. (Wich in my opinion should not be done at all... unless they sell the gutters for a normal price - in wich case they will still make a profit large enough to buy more then 2 beers)

Because the community are bumping up the prices for models that were sold for 10$, you create these kind of recasters.