Random Skills/Mutations

Colonel Fatlad · Post by **Colonel Fatlad** » Sat May 10, 2003 10:53 am

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I can't find the topic in a search. Does anyone else think that having random skills and/or mutations could be workable? I do like being able to choose the skills, but it does tend to produce very similar players for the same roster a lot of the time.
I especially think it's a bit wierd for mutations. Chaos is meant to be ... well, chaotic.
What are the skaven doing to produce all those long legged gutter runners? Making them wear warpstone pants?

If I remember correctly (I may well be wrong), 2nd edition BB had random tables and it used to produce some weird combinations. I for one would like to see the occasional Shadowing mummy or Multiple Block skink

.
I know this would take the skill out of team development and produce some useless star players, but I would like to give it a go.
Has anyone already made some random tables up, or should I give it a go myself?

Post by **Thadrin** » Sat May 10, 2003 11:34 am

I hated the old random skill table.
I think a random mutation table could be interesting though.
a D8 table, or d16 table or something

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sat May 10, 2003 1:42 pm

Random skills are definitely something that people don't want to have.

Mutations, on the other hand, have some of the best skills in the game (think RSC, Claw etc) and I have always been of the opinion that the coaches should not be allowed to just choose one of them.

However, the coach must know in advance what mutation he would get, so I'm definitely against this:

Procedure #1 (Bad, BAD procedure)
1.Doubles
2.Coach:"I'll take a mutation"
3.Roll a random mutation for the player.

Rather, the coach should have a choice between a single mutation and all the other skills and traits available on doubles. So the best random mutation procedure would be:

Procedure #2 (Me like dis)
1.Doubles
2.Roll a random mutation
3.Coach: "Do I take that mutation or some other skill/trait/anyskill? Let's see..."

Colonel Fatlad · Post by **Colonel Fatlad** » Sat May 10, 2003 1:52 pm

I can see where people would not want to use a random skill table. In a competitive league, they would cause far, far too much whining

. I can also see that procedure #2 of Mestari's would be far better in a competitive league. However, in the easy-going league with my friends that I am to be part of, I quite fancy using random skills and mutations (Mestari's procedure #1).
Does anyone have some tables already made up? If not, I'll make some up, and I may as well post them here.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sat May 10, 2003 2:43 pm

I really dislike random mutations. You're giving up a lot to use a player with physical abilities, and there are some real clunker physical traits on the list.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat May 10, 2003 4:37 pm

For a competative (balanced) league, I'd say no to random mutations

, but in a choatic league (if one exists anywhere), yes, random tables would be fun, and maybe some of the other 2nd ed mutations could make a return (obese, teleport, exploding player

)

Shadow_Dragon · Post by **Shadow_Dragon** » Sat May 10, 2003 5:00 pm

I think Chaos could be random but i think skaven are too good at manipulating warpstone to have it go random, maybe a further dice roll for them and if it fails then it's random!
Ofcourse mutations aren't that common, sometimes if you roll a mutation for the first skill it's hard to know whether to take a mutation, take a trait or give them block! For example i ahve a skaven thrower with movement 8, str 4, armour 8, spikes, but i never got to give him block, so he might be a tough but he knocks himself out everygame!
But Chaos teams realistically could be a random dice roll!

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sat May 10, 2003 5:11 pm

Skummy wrote:I really dislike random mutations. You're giving up a lot to use a player with physical abilities, and there are some real clunker physical traits on the list.

But if you do it like the way I suggested above, you don't have to take the random mutation but could go for a trait etc. instead. They're quite good also.
Random mutation availability would simply deny the no-brainer solutions that the current mutation selecting is.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Sat May 10, 2003 8:53 pm

And if you try the way I suggest (physical skills) you would see a lot more of the unused skills without hamstringing the Chaos and Skaven teams on a double. Nobody really liked having a random choice for their skill. It took a lot of the player management aspect out of the game. What you're proposing would be making the mutations even more rare, becasue the odds of getting a useful one would be decreased. If that happened, I'd like to see the physical mutation teams get some kind of compensation.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat May 10, 2003 9:34 pm

Here's an old thing i wrote for random mutations in 3rd ed. It would have to be adapted because a lot of those are now racial caracteristics.

Mutations are divided into 3 categories:

A) Scoring
1. Big hand
2. Extra arms
3. Stunty
4. Two heads
5. Very long legs
6. Your choice

B) Hurting
1. Claw
2. Horns
3. Razor shar fangs
4. Spikes
5. Thick skull
6. Your choice

C) Annoying
1. Foul appearance
2. Hypnotic gaze
3. Prehensile tail
4. Regeneration
5. Tentacles
6. Your choice

The coach first decides what category to pick from, then rolls a D6 and takes that mutation. On a 6 or if the player already has that mutation, pick any you want from that category.

To compensate for mutations not being as attractive using this system, players with access to mutations (skaven, chaos, minotaur, etc) can decide to get one on a roll of 7 or a double on the SPP roll (instead of just on a double).

This system makes mutations random like they should be, while still keeping them attractive to the coach.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sat May 10, 2003 9:46 pm

You have tentacles and regeneration in annoying?

I think a ST 6 big guy with regen and tentacles is more than annoying. You put thick skull in hurting but regen in annoying...doesn't make sense. Random mutations knocks both chaos and skaven down a peg and is not needed.
The teams are balancd, or so they say. There's no reason to tone them down.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat May 10, 2003 10:01 pm

Dark Lord wrote:You have tentacles and regeneration in annoying? I think a ST 6 big guy with regen and tentacles is more than annoying.

Where else would you have them? They don't fit in scoring or in hurting. They're VERY annoying. Notice that annoying doesn't mean mild. If it did, nobody would ever pick that category. It means more like "piss people off".

Dark Lord wrote:You put thick skull in hurting but regen in annoying...doesn't make sense.

Thick skull lets you stay on the pitch, so it helps in hurting. Regeneration only helps to stay alive and is certainly annoying to the other team.

Dark Lord wrote:Random mutations knocks both chaos and skaven down a peg and is not needed. The teams are balancd, or so they say. There's no reason to tone them down.

That's why i wrote that you get them on a 7 instead of a double, to compensate. But maybe you didn't read that far before replying.

Dark Lord (retired) · Sat May 10, 2003 10:08 pm

I read it.

It doesn't help. It actually makes it worse.
You'll simply have 2 headed Minotaurs with big hands and regeneration on Chaos teams. A usueless player who won't die.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat May 10, 2003 11:04 pm

Actually, i'd love to have a minotaur with big hand. Picks up the ball on 2+ always, and who'll stop him from scoring? Two heads would help him out in this department too. And regeneration means that you'll always be able to rely on this player. Though in LRB, regeneration wouldn't be in these tables, because it's a racial caracteristic now.

Besides, if you don't want a scoring minotaur, then why did you roll twice in the scoring table? Why not roll in the hurting table instead if that's what you're looking for?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sat May 10, 2003 11:06 pm

quite a few of them won't be on those tables tbh