State of the NAFtion

[Lychanthrope]

I keep hearing, "NAF is for TT." Why?!?! I have no problem with TT, I play it when I get a chance, not often enough. I do have a problem with saying it's only for TT. I understand Cyanide has some bugs that need to be worked on/fixed, or so a lot of people say I do not yet own it. But if you want league info/data fumbbl is your easiest option. Set up a NAF area in fumbbl, play games and have them reported directly to the NAF data base. I have no idea how to set it up, but I'm sure someone does. You should be able to automate it.

Once set up you can play any NAF/fumbbl member in the world.

[Warpstone]

I keep hearing, "NAF is for TT." Why?!?! I have no problem with TT, I play it when I get a chance, not often enough. I do have a problem with saying it's only for TT. I understand Cyanide has some bugs that need to be worked on/fixed, or so a lot of people say I do not yet own it. But if you want league info/data fumbbl is your easiest option. Set up a NAF area in fumbbl, play games and have them reported directly to the NAF data base. I have no idea how to set it up, but I'm sure someone does. You should be able to automate it.

Once set up you can play any NAF/fumbbl member in the world.

I see no problem with that. So long as the DB can classify where games originated, then everyone can be rolled in and filtered through later.

I mostly care about TT, but I've bought two versions of the Cyanide game (and loathed it), donated to FUMBBL and played PbEM. The latter is a large part of why got back into BLood Bowl after over a decade long hiatus. It stands to reason that our own personal hangups about the legitimacy of other types of BB play are just that: biases. I'm sure the focus for NAF can still remain TT, because frankly the digital community doesn't need as much organization/cat-herding. It's unlikely NAF becomes overrun with video gamers any time soon. Besides if Cyanide/GW continue to threaten a schism between video game rules and TT rules, wouldn't you at least want the Cyanide players to understand why such developments are a cause for concern?

Unfortunately Lycanthrope, this is an organization that still doesn't do much to include league play. So even though what you suggest should not upset any applecarts, it probably has no chance in the near future.

[sann0638]

It's a good question Lycanthrope. Absolutely no reason why we can't be one big happy family, but at the moment the focus is on tournaments. From there for me the next step is more tabletop league support. Then online. My thoughts, anyway.

[Blammaham]

It's a good question Lycanthrope. Absolutely no reason why we can't be one big happy family, but at the moment the focus is on tournaments. From there for me the next step is more tabletop league support. Then online. My thoughts, anyway.

I totally agree! I think the point of this thread is how the NAF is going to gain new members and retain members that are already in the fold.

The NAF has done a great job of building and supporting the tournament scene into the thriving one we see now. I and other leauge players, are now, and for quite a while, have been asking for something more from the NAF. A tool to link leagues together and to have a League Director position created to over see the process.

I am curious what the NAF could do for the Online community, as a very light Fumbbl player and someone that has never played any other online platform I don't know what the NAF could offer that group (they have their own ranking system). Perhaps that is why the NAF is seen as a TT organisation. S.

[Mango]

But... still no idea what's happening with regards to leagues (lots of decent suggestions in this thread). Still no idea what's happening with GW, or with regards to dice. Still no idea what else is happening behind the scenes. I know we can't be told every little detail, but sending out an update from each of the head-honchos in the NAF, once every few months, would be really good. And yes, I'm pretty sure most of these things were promised in the elections.

Call me a pessimist but....

Could the lack of communication be because people want to hold onto information so they cant be challenged at election time?

If everyone was fully up to date then it would be easy for someone to fill someone else's shoes but if a challenger knows very little about the current NAF situation then its easy for an incumbent to say 'vote for me, I know exactly what is going on and it is a very sensitive time for the organization so a newcomer could destroy alot of work in progress'

Just a thought

[Lychanthrope]

I get the league importance. I agree. What I do not get is the difference between a NAF fummbl league game and a league game played in myy basement. They use the same rules, advance TV the same, etc. The only difference is one of tech. Is this group that old that the difference is important?

[Rumble]

I get the league importance. I agree. What I do not get is the difference between a NAF fummbl league game and a league game played in myy basement. They use the same rules, advance TV the same, etc. The only difference is one of tech. Is this group that old that the difference is important?

I don't know much about the fummbl league but it is possible to have a virtual version of your tabletop team? It would be good if when you update the results from tabletop game it keeps your fummbl version inline.

I personally would rather play tabletop and that would always be first choice, but if it means playing the game online or not at all then I would certainly go for online.

[Woolfe]

I get the league importance. I agree. What I do not get is the difference between a NAF fummbl league game and a league game played in myy basement. They use the same rules, advance TV the same, etc. The only difference is one of tech. Is this group that old that the difference is important?

I agree, I see no difference in having Fumbbl, or TT, or Cyanide stats. I wasn't necessarily suggesting comparing the different rankings. Because really other than from an interest point of view you can't really compare one to the other. Even the TT leagues can be hard due to differing team rules.

Thing is tho. A well written database, with the right sort of queries should be able to manage that sort of thing easily.

I would suggets having each of the types seperated completely, with the option to add them in.

So you choose the TT league table. You then have to choose house rule options (eg in our league we have a tighter spiral, allow some variant teams, and have 2 special bonus rounds that allow for unusual skill/stat bonuses for a single player).
Then if you so choose you can select to cross reference with one of the other tables. For example the Cyanide table. etc. At which point you can add or remove cyanide specific options. etc.

Once you have the tables built, the interpretation and comparison between them shouldn't be that hard, simply a matter of getting the query language correct.
Oh I am sure there would be fiddly technical bits that would make it hard, maybe even impossible for certain things, but certainly the base level should be doable.

Cyanide should really be the simplest, because it has a set group of values for what can be done in leagues(I believe, correct me if I am wrong). Fumbbl I don't know about. TT would no doubt take time to compile, but I reckon it could be done.

[Vanguard]

As someone who's been away from Blood Bowl for a while, figured I'd still offer my opinion.
It seems the NAF is having a bit of an identity crisis, accelerated by the loss of official dice. What does/should the NAF offer BB players in order to be relevant and useful?
Open Forums: Don't see a reason to keep forums restricted to paid members only. It will only put off new visitors, who are being asked to make the leap of faith that it's worth paying for. The forums should be open to all (and this applies to the majority of the website too) with specific sub forums restricted to paid members for discussion of NAF business.
Tournament Organisation: Simplify the process for TOs and add functionality for participants. Add a Tournament database to the website, allow TOs to create and add tournaments with rules pack, maps, etc etc. Allow members to register and pay thru' the NAF site. Enter their team roster, view other attendees, see their history, previous teams, profile etc.
Members only have to register once with NAF, all details are passed to TO via account.
This can include functionality for running the tournament, fixture draws, results recording. Make it a useful resource for TOs so they see the benefit of registering their tournament with the NAF. Players can then see results in real time if attending or not.
Tournament Support: Official NAF tournaments should have some form of official support/prizes. The cost, or majority at least, would be met by the tournament so the level of participation would be up to the TO. The NAF advantage is in buying these in bulk annually allowing TOs to benefit from their buying power. For example, coins/poker chips with the NAF logo and year on one side with the other side open for customisation by the tournament. Custom pitches, dugouts, t-shirts.
NAF Board: Who's on the board? I've found that info by digging around in the forums, but it should be front and centre on the homepage along with area of responsibility and contact details. A schedule of upcoming meetings with topics to be covered and an archive of minutes for previous meetings. All members should be able to quickly and easily find out what's happening within the club
League Support: In line with Tournament support, make the site useful to League organisers. Offering OBBLM (or similar) hosting would be a good start, make it easy for people to organise and run leagues, record results, register teams, set fixtures, contact coaches etc. Prizes mentioned for tournaments should be available to leagues too. Give people a reason to join the site and lack of block dice is no longer an issue. Again, drive regular traffic to the site which will help build the community/forums.
Rankings: This follows on from offering services for running Tournaments and Leagues - all the game data is already captured and tied to players accounts. House rules are linked to the tournament or league so various rankings can be calculated from the data. 'Pure' tables excluding all variations, 'Inclusive' tales that count every match or any point in between.
Profiles: Not 'Facebook for Blood Bowl' but members should be able to build up a personal profile, post pictures, record their teams. When you view a coach you should see all of their teams, their tournament history, which teams/rosters they use etc. Coaches should be able to post pictures of their teams, add fluff and match summaries (which are linked to the match data).
Charter: Or Rules and Regulations. What are the obligations of Coaches and Board Members, how often and when are meetings/AGMs held? How are they held? Skype and Google Hangout (for example) allow meetings to be open to all. When are elections? What are the processes? I hear talk about nominations, voting, votes of no confidence but are these rules documented anywhere? Again, this should be easily accessible from the homepage.
Finances: I feel there might be a need for some more transparency of NAF finances, it seems to be a tender spot for some. Personally I was shocked by the cash reserves the NAF has. What's the reason for this? What're they needed for, what costs are anticipated or the contingencies required? I'd assume the NAF is a non-profit organisation, so would aim to roughly break even over a given period, with some cash reserves built up to smooth income and expenditure.
Location: There are several open source mapping APIs available (Google maps is one) which would allow the inclusion of location data for coaches, tournaments and leagues. Seeing what's available in your area of a map, searching by distance etc should all be implementable.

I seem to have rambled slightly and suspect it could have been better structured. Hope some find it useful. These are just some of the thoughts that have occurred to me looking at the NAF with relatively fresh eyes.

[Vanguard]

This might be a good place to gather some opinions! Some of the options to solve the BB variant issue are as follows:

A) allow the existing variant matches to stay in the database and allow them in future
B) allow the existing variant matches to stay in the database but don't allow any variants in future
C) retrospectively remove all variant games from the database (and not rank them in future)


B and C would most likely involve a separate 'variant rankings' page on the site, with each coach's variant matches being separated from their regular BB matches.

All thoughts welcome here.

Technically, all matches/tournaments could be classified - Blood Bowl, Street Bowl etc including variations. This then allows Ranking to include or exclude particular types at the time of calculation, so you can have 'Pure' ranking or 'Inclusive' ranking or just '5-Man Elf Ball played on a Sunday' ranking. ) Point is, you can offer the user the option to filter as they see fit.
Sure, there would be a need for an 'Official NAF' ranking which would essentially see the NAF determining what types of matches to include. It would however, be easy to change at any point in time if there was a need.

I say 'technically' as retrospectively adding this info to the database is probably not quick or easy. Or even possible if the information is no longer around.