State of the NAFtion

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Digger Goreman »

Darkson wrote:
Olaf the Stout wrote: A metal NAF ball would be pretty cool, and surely wouldn't cost too much to make either.
The NAF made 3 metal balls in the past. Not sure when (or why) they stopped. I think there are pics on Trav's site.
I physically have a set of naf balls... running gag on where they are and the difficulty of playing with them.... :wink:

But, being an eternal optimist (strange for an Undead Coach, right?) I might one day see reason to paint and represent them on my field....

We will see what we see.... :)

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Re: State of the NAFtion

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by sann0638 »

Know when they are from?

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Darkson »

July 2006 is the first post I can find on them: http://thenaf.net/index.php?name=PNphpB ... pic&t=3183

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Pug »

I've got a set of those...some where amongst all the other stuff.

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Colin »

You guys got yours as a set. :o I got one for attending a tourney (that's ONE ball, not one set), I feel kinda ripped off....oh well at least I have one.

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by sann0638 »

Darkson wrote:July 2006 is the first post I can find on them: http://thenaf.net/index.php?name=PNphpB ... pic&t=3183
Thanks Darkson. Did you perchance search "balls" on the NAF forum? Dangerous!

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by WeeManBiggins »

Would like to add to suggestions of all things detailed in this rather long thread I spent the last hour reading.

- As stated by many people, website. Needs a major overhaul. The mechanics are fine and the content is fine too, it just needs a new flashy design. My idea is you could have a contest/suggestion thread for members to submit design ideas and then have other members to vote upon them. Then once this is done get a pro in to do the work, make the design and mechanics simple to allow one person to run it without the technical know-how.

- Never really used STARS or understood what it was for so left it. Should be deleted really to free up web space/memory.

- Some form of league uploading system. Have it split into the regions/country and allow Commissioners of leagues to upload their leagues/cups results, teams and news for their players to view. This would accommodate leagues who don't have a dedicated website as well as new leagues who don't have the spare money or who are too small to even warrant a website (To many terrible freewebs sites!). This is also a good thing for starting up a social network for new members to find local clubs and for other members of NAF to view other leagues news, competitions and more. Having a feed for this on the frontpage is a must.

- I think a few good videos explaining the NAF and what it is about, explain the game of blood bowl and its history and also a few good written guides on submission of tournament results, etc... After all we have to think about new members. A video which explains the ranking system should be top priority.

- Get TFF as the main forum. Simply put I don't see the point in having two forums I never use the NAF one because everything goes on here, it takes up space which could be used for something else. I understand this is used for other FF games but every official forum I have been on has a section on "anything other than the main subject" so what would be the main issue here?

- New membership pack with a letter from the president included. What a nice touch this would be for new members. A welcoming to the world of BB, explaining the NAF, tournaments and much more.

- Get linking to sites which people use for the game. Playbooks, minatures, leagues and more. Lets promote these sites more.

- Committee page. Have their faces on display, small description about them and a contact link. Most companies have this why not the NAF?

That's all I can think of at the moment. The NAF has massive potential to be a great community and source for the game. I will work hard to get things in motion to kick-start a re-boot even if it means making the videos and guides myself.
Personally I pay my membership to support the NAF at a very small cost (the cost of a coffee or too at Costa..) I play in their tournaments, have fun and meet a ton of new people that's why I pay and play. It's no mean feat to organize things and what the crew do I think are great. I personally couldn't do what they do.

Alex

PS. The newsletters are excellent and long may they continue!

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Warpstone »

Mike, now that I've spent the better part of day catching up, a few suggestions:

1) Request that Lycos answer direct questions from members IN PUBLIC. Credit to Geggster, Pippy and Mike. But honestly, the lack of Dave speaking to issues that understandably question his leadership is troubling. It leads to an argument by proxy and people stepping for him etc. It's much simpler if he simply communicated sincerely in response to some huge issues facing NAF rather than cherry-pick NAF threads to respond to and allow the rest of the executive to field questions that are directed to him.

A really good place to start is for Lycos to seriously consider reconciling NAF's mandate. Supporting blood bowl in general does not seem to match what NAF does in practice. The sense I get is that it's primarily dedicated to promoting tabletop resurrection tournies and that's fine. But that's not the same as an umbrella organization interested in all aspects of the game. There's no sense hiding behind unclear goals. After all, tabletop league and online players can already tell that NAF doesn't support them much if at all. What is NAF's strategy to retain members in the absence of block dice?


2) Archive and shutter the current ranking system. The DB itself is not robust enough to handle problems like variant-rankings. To sort or delete Streetbowl, Beach Bowl, Deathbowl, Spacebowl (I kid on this one, but one day you know it's going to happen :D), you need meta-data that accounts for non-standard features. It's also profoundly pointless to have a system based purely on frequency of play as a large component of the scores themselves.
Build a new system based on:

* recording tournament meta-data. It will give us the abilty to filter based on common variations as well as other common rules factors such as custom stars/tables, game effects, pitches, etc. It's a pointless excercise to identify pure strains of Streetbowl let alone Blood Bowl, so just record variations and expose these options as filterable form that the individual users can use to satisfy their preferred criteria.

* make the default ranking based on performance over one calender year. You can still access lifetime stats or stats for a specified time period using filters, but turn the default view into one that reflects current and active players.

* introduce a decay factor on lifetime scores. If you don't play Skaven for 3 years, your lifetime ranking for that race shrinks by a factor of K (5% or even 15 points) until you reach starting ELO. Of course, your highest ever ranking will be recorded as well ("kids, I used to be the #1 Goblin player of all time...").

* integrate tournament management functionality in the backend reporting system. Kill two birds with one stone by making TOs only need to record data once! There's no reason why I can't input round 2's results directly into a web interface and then have the server spit back a round 3 swiss fixture list.

Most TOs reinvent the wheel for their events in order to accommodate concepts that have arbitrary variations (i.e. bonus points of different amounts). That's trivial to deal with if we're account for at the start of a new ranking system. Further, it allows us to record a more comprehensive story of what happened at the tournament (i.e. who scored the most TD, CAS, etc. is an easy tally when you're recording the entire tourny data set anyway).

* Regarding the programming, I know at least one of the NAF coders and he's an extremely competent guy. I sincerely think that he, I or a team of volunteers could collaborate to make the above rebuild happen. The problem though is direction. We're not getting it even we offer our time. You can't keep putting lipstick on a pig and that's about all you can do with the current infrastructure. You need Pippy and/or Lycos to make the call that current code is insufficient and spec out a more robust replacement.

3) Make the NAF Announcements and Comments forums public. I'm pretty sure I glanced at the NAF site for a few years before someone told me there were hidden, members-only forums! Why? Nothing there is any different in terms of sensitivity than what we're currently discussing on TFF. Unlike a local league, NAF is not a private club. It's membership is largely unaware of official on-goings and hiding them behind an authentication wall is ridiculous. Most members who sign up at a tournament don't even know that they need to make a forum account.

4) If NAF is still interested in growing the game outside of a few tournies, then for the love of nuffle, throw leagues a bone. My clubmates and I play resurrection tournies a few weekends a year. But we play a minimum of 12 weekends worth of league blood bowl. So much exposure and recruitment to the coaching ranks is done via leagues that it's notable that NAF's only league related support is so underwhelming. If you don't live in a tourny hotbed, local Blood Bowl lives or dies on the strength of your league and that deserves NAF's support if they're truly an organization devoted to the good of the game.

BTW Mike, every time I try to add my league to NAF's site, I get an error. :)

5) Clarify NAF's communication with GW. I appreciate Geggster's thoughts, but frankly it's hard to believe that an organization that 1)is not consulted during potential rules issues (Khorne) 2) not allowed to host at WW (NAFC) 3) is not allowed to produce Block dice is still on GW's radar. I understand Geggster believes we should be cautious, but it sounds like GW broke up with NAF and the latter still thinks there's a relationship.
A lot of the consternation over this issue really comes down to members wondering whether NAF even has the will to do anything meaningful without GW's blessing and how long should we expect to wait for a phone call from GW before admitting it's over?

6) Communication should address concerns. The format and frequency of NAF comms are much improved. JonnyP did a good job to start things and Mike has been really on the ball. The problem though is content. None of the above concerns are well-addressed through official NAF channels. Ironically, it seems like NAF developed a strong comms program right about the time when everything hit the fan and leadership went silent. Volunteer or not, when you're a leader, you can't be silent. You need to lead and you do that by communicating your decisions through the channels available. Consider how even though people didn't like the executive's Khorne roster decision, it was accepted. The same can't be said for the block dice because there is just so much more entangled with this issue. The absence of block dice is bringing questions that strike directly at NAF's very reason to exist. The absence of communication regarding NAF's vision for the future hurts confidence and credibility. What happens when members no longer believe NAF offers any value? An infinite amount of comms channels aren't going to resolve an existential crisis that leadership is mum about.

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Deathwing »

The NAF balls were produced and supplied by Shadowforge and given away as tourney prize support/spot prizes.

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Pug »

Yup, that's how I got mine...Think it was Poo Bowl 1.

Like the idea of the ranking rebuild on the NAF DB, but the consideration is that although a live update of results on the site would be cool, there would also need to be an off-line option due to people not having connection during tournament due to location or internet accessibility. Like it though, you could have a "NAF TV" and watch live results feed from a specific tournament that's going on! I would!

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by sann0638 »

Thanks both - meant to acknowledge WMB earlier but it dropped off the new posts search!

I feel a bit silly answering, given some of what Warpstone has said, but this thread has been tremendous in terms of generating ideas, and NAF committee are definitely aware of them.

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by sann0638 »

Warpstone wrote:
BTW Mike, every time I try to add my league to NAF's site, I get an error. :)
That's weird. There are a few error messages floating about, but leagues are still being added weekly. PM me the message, what happens etc?

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by Warpstone »

Tried again and it worked Mike. Thanks! I think MemMuff solved the gremlins.

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Re: State of the NAFtion

Post by sann0638 »

Ah yes, the gremlins got fixed a couple of months ago - it was in the newsletter!

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