State of the NAFtion

[Oly1987]

This whole thread is getting very depressing. I thought this thread was about getting idea's for how the NAF could be improved? Not a place where all i see is a lot of personal attacks going on.

I for one don't mind my money going towards the Spike! trophy being recast. Being a tabletop tournie goer I feel like I would be more likely to go abroad to go to a major, or the euro/world cup more than any other tournament so yeah I am all for the NAF funding for the trophies. Just because the Spike! is the only one doesn't mean that other majors couldn't get help like that. Was the NAF ever contacted when the Aussie's were getting money together to make their trophy? Majors are special events that normally pull in double/triple/quadruple what a normal tournament would pull in.

There are some great idea's on here but has anyone thought to actually message Lycos and tell him what we want? This isn't a totally 1 way street it would be nice to hear from the president a little more so he could tell us what is going on with the NAF with updates etc.

lastly, can we please all just calm down? What does it say about us as a community when a thread for idea's turns into a slanging match. We really need to all have a look at ourselves and maybe see what we can do to help the community. Now i don't want anyone to take that the wrong way as I know a lot of people do stuff off their own backs but how about getting in contact with the NAF more and working in partnership with them? I love the BB community and i dont want to see it fall apart due to petty bickering.

[Deathwing]

Please, let's try and keep this to a civilized discussion within bounds of the thread title. ( Perhaps go and start a thread on the merits of the Spike Trophy funding on NAF? )
Other than that I see the same old faces grinding the same old axes about *their* sense of entitlement for the princely sum they've contributed each year. Let's be clear here... it amounts to a nominal fee. So nominal that a considerable profit can be made simply by putting the annual gift on ebay. So to all those who can't see any 'value' in membership without the block dice, I would ask you to consider that the 'value' you have received by membership gifts to date in monetary terms is far in excess of what you have spent in membership fees.

As far as the website goes, I'm aware it's dated, yet I'm not sure spending a large amount of funding to update represents value. Whilst it was always intended and hoped to be a central resource worldwide, that never worked out, and I'm not sure it ever will. TBB/TFF will always be more popular, the French will naturally tend towards the French forums, Spain the same, USA towards Zlurphee...etc etc. I'm seeing the same old criticisms for lack of content...and I've said this time and time again... the NAF members are the NAF community. If nobody submits strategy guides/ painting guides/ tournament write-ups or whatever else you want to see then there IS NOTHING TO HOST! If people paint something up, post it on cool-mini-whatever, or their national/local/own website of choice then that's the way it is. I'm a little tired of seeing blame directed at the NAF committee on this subject when the 'blame' (if any) should be directed towards the apathy of the membership. 'Where is the content?' gets old after a decade of next to no content being actually submitted by thousands of members worldwide. Would that change with a shiny new website? Or would everybody go *coo* and return to old habits/regular forums? Worth a ten grand punt? Hmmm....not sure...

State of the NAFtion? I see an inherently flawed and unprofessional organisation (by it's very nature) that has achieved some great things mainly on the back of a lot of hard work and untold hours devoted to the community by a handful of unpaid volunteers over the last decade. I see those people making those huge commitments with sometimes justifiable and constructive criticisms and in spite of totally unwarranted vitriol. I see that most major decisions will continue to have to be made by the elected officials amongst themselves because greater transparency and more involvement with the community in making those decisions would inevitably descend into the usual modern day internet sh!tstorm... rabble rousing, pitchforks etc. ( TFF Mod hat on for a moment... more than a few people need to look at this thread again and look at their manner of posting in the heat of the moment.)

I see that there is still far too much of 'What does the NAF do for me?' and not enough of 'What can I do for the NAF?'. But from here onwards? I honestly don't know... perhaps a smaller 'more committed' tabletop focused membership would be a better and more solid community. Perhaps a larger umbrella to try and incorporate online BB players would be the way forward... I don't actually know which would be better for the NAF community in the long term.

But to all current and past Staff/Officers/NTOs/RTOs/TOs/helpers/contributors/constructive criticisers/volunteers... salutations and respect. Unpaid volunteers supported by only a nominal fee can only do so much. It's often a thankless task. So thanks.

[Deathwing]

Furthermore, given what's going on in the world at the moment, there are much more important things to get angry about than a tabletop/online board game and community infighting. Please try and apply some perspective... deep breath and reply to actual post content rather than who posted it. This was only a depressing thread to read though in that so much of it was quite pathetic in nature.

[generaljason]

Craig mate, what Virral is saying is that international contributions have apparently been put in to a single country's event. He thinks that's inappropriate, you don't, and that's all fine.

Again it's a different frame of mind is all. I don't see the Spike! Magazine as a single country event but a NAF Major.

He's also pointed out that other majors didn't receive offers of topups for trophies when they were casting their own.

I didn't receive an offer either - I asked for it. No special treatment here: I did what he didn't.

If new majors were told that NAF would match 40% of funds raised to a maximum of $1000 in order to cast their trophy, that would be different.

The NAF gave us less than 30%, not 40%. They had script approval essentially and were cc'd on every development of the project.

Weren't told? We weren't told about it either - we asked!! Unprecedented sure, but not back door at all. Both sides were completely open about it.

Before I get caught in the crossfire here, please note that I'm not accusing anyone of anything; I'm just pointing out that the impression of nepotism, even misplaced, is dangerous for any organisation.

I don't even know Paul or Dave personally so I don't know what form of nepotism you're alluding to? If you mean that NAF as an organization showing favouritism to their own NAF Majors then fair enough.

I do know who you are, and you've put in a remarkable amount of work to the hobby. I also know who Virral is, and can say the exact same about him. What he's saying does not diminish your achievements in any way, it simply reinforces the somewhat unfortunate impression that NAF is something of a closed shop to those without the necessary contacts, be that true or not.

Appreciated, but I disagree I had "necessary contacts". I emailed the guys who could possibly help me. First the President and the VP because that seemed logical, then the Treasurer and the rest of the ELECTED committee got involved. They felt like I do that it was a project worth supporting, and again I'd feel that way about any club trying to raise the bar at the NAF Majors. If we can only proceed on precedence we can never evolve.

But I meant what I said: I thought the community as a whole supported this decision. I refuse to have Paul, Dave or any of the elected volunteers of NAF to take ANY flack whatsoever for this decision. So if someone wants to put up a poll ON THE NAF SITE asking the NAF members whether they supported that decision - WE WILL TREAT THE MONEY LIKE A TEMPORARY LOAN AND IF NECESSARY: SEND IT BACK TO THE NAF!! No chip on our shoulders, and no questions asked.

All due respect,
Craig.

[Lychanthrope]

Craig, as a USA BBer I can quickly say I will probably never see your beautiful and unique country, and if by some miracle I could make my way there I am nowhere near good enough to come even close to winning the Spike! Magazine trophy, but I have zip-zero-nadda problems with the NAF helping with the trophy. I might have sent a donation if I had know about the oppertunity to help. I cannot imagine anyone thinking you need to pay that back, but if the universe surprises us with that request. Ask, most of the international community will donate more then you need to cover the cost.

[Shteve0]

Hi again Craig

Please let me be clear, I'm not accusing you (or anyone) of any wrongdoing here. FWIW, I don't think Virral is either.

What I'm saying is that, rightly or wrongly, the decision to award topup funding to one major without extending that same offer to similar fundraising elsewhere was always likely to open the organisation to accusations of favouritism. It's regrettable, but there it is. A lot of work goes into supporting NAF events from many individuals worldwide, and while your effort in particular is absolutely commendable and remarkable, I can see the view (if it's not necessarily one I share myself) that it - and other points raised in the thread - are not representative of an equal distribution of the group's funding.

Incidentally, the 40% I quoted is the proportion of the independently raised funding, not the full total, but that's by the by. I'm certainly not suggesting there should be any pressure on you to dig into your own pocket further. I've also got nothing to gain in arguing with anyone on what is or isn't appropriate; I'm merely trying to highlight that there are differing views at play here, and all are valid where sincerely held.

Back on topic, I think that the contribution of shared funds towards majors is probably a very decent use of funds, but it might be wise to endeavour to make the method and restrictions placed on such discribution transparent and equitable. If it's an initiative that will encourage new blood into the game, then that's great, but it would be comforting to know how the NAF sees its role in supporting events, not retroactively, but rather going forward. Someone suggested on here that prize support for NAF tourneys is considered for rollout as a standard initiative, or that discounts are applied to NAF events universally, and I'd support both initiatives. I think most of all what people would like is visibility and an even hand applied to all NAF events and/or NAF majors, for example.

Keep up the good work

Steve

[Shteve0]

Craig, as a USA BBer I can quickly say I will probably never see your beautiful and unique country, and if by some miracle I could make my way there

Yikes. Has Canada moved since last time I checked a map?

[Fassbinder75]

Craig, as a USA BBer I can quickly say I will probably never see your beautiful and unique country, and if by some miracle I could make my way there

Yikes. Has Canada moved since last time I checked a map?

When you live on the bottom of the planet and NA/Euro's say things are "far away" I chuckle. I think you can drive from Indiana to Canada.

[Olaf the Stout]

Craig mate, what Virral is saying is that international contributions have apparently been put in to a single country's event. He thinks that's inappropriate, you don't, and that's all fine.

He's also pointed out that other majors didn't receive offers of topups for trophies when they were casting their own. If new majors were told that NAF would match 40% of funds raised to a maximum of $1000 in order to cast their trophy, that would be different.

I do know who you are, and you've put in a remarkable amount of work to the hobby. I also know who Virral is, and can say the exact same about him. What he's saying does not diminish your achievements in any way, it simply reinforces the somewhat unfortunate impression that NAF is something of a closed shop to those without the necessary contacts, be that true or not.

Before I get caught in the crossfire here, please note that I'm not accusing anyone of anything; I'm just pointing out that the impression of nepotism, even misplaced, is dangerous for any organisation.

I largely agree with what Shteve0 has said above.

Virral is saying he doesn't like the fact that the NAF spent $1,000 (or however much it was) on the casting of a trophy for a single tournament. Yes this tournament is a NAF major, but he still doesn’t think that is an appropriate expenditure of NAF funds. He has a right to that opinion, just as you have a right to disagree with that opinion.

I don’t think Virral is suggesting that you were underhanded in the way you went about it. You asked the NAF for the money, they gave it to you. Nothing underhanded about that. You did nothing wrong in that regard.

What he is saying is that the fact that the NAF gave 1 tournament (albeit a NAF major) a large sum of money (and it is big chunk of money compared to the budget for almost all BB tournaments), but did not mention to any of the other majors that they could do the same felt a little underhanded. Yes, the other 4 NAF majors (or other tournaments beyond that?) could have asked the NAF as well. However, they probably didn’t ever consider that it was an option (I know I wouldn’t have if I was in that position).

Other than it being reported in the financials (which many people like myself are only just discovering now) I don’t recall any mention of the NAF contributing $1,000 to the creation of the trophy. I do remember reading that the trophy was being re-made and that there was a call for donations from the BB community (I didn’t donate personally), but I don’t recall any mention of NAF funds being used. So this is where Virral likely feels it was a bit under-handed (and I can understand that).

Personally I think that giving $1,000 to one tournament for a trophy is excessive, even if that tournament is a NAF major. I would prefer That said, I would also never consider spending $3,700 to have a Blood Bowl trophy created (or re-created as it were), as I also thing that is a bit excessive, even if it Is one of the coolest trophies that I have seen (I read the ‘making of’ article that you guys made at the time). Others think that is fine. We disagree, but that is fine too. It’s not really a right or wrong situation, just one person’s opinion compared to another’s.

What I don’t think is up for debate is the commitment of all the people involved here. Obviously since the people behind the Spike! Magazine Trophy raised $2,700 towards a trophy for the tournament, they are fairly committed to their tournament and Blood Bowl in general. Similarly, if you had seen some of the things that Virral has done for the Australian Blood Bowl community, you would know that he has also put a lot of time, money and effort into his tournament and Blood Bowl in general. So that is something that does not need to be called into question for anyone involved.

So, given that all parties are committed to Blood Bowl and want to see the game grow, what can we do, working together, to make that happen?

Olaf the Stout

Edit: Missed a word in the last sentence.

[Lychanthrope]

My bad I got confused foiiowing this mess I thought we were discussing Australia. Yah, I can drive to Windsor in about 4 hours. Of corse going to Canada was alot easier before the powers that be insisted I have a passport.

[Fassbinder75]

I can't speak for all Australians, but to me the NAF is block dice and a place to see my tourney record/ranking. Without the block dice, what reason do I have to subscribe? All the majors (well the named ones anyway) are in the northern hemisphere and its unlikely I'll ever have the spare cash to travel to Europe or North America just so I can play Blood Bowl, so spending comparitively large sums of money on trophies represents poor value for me as a subscriber. Apart from fancy trophies, what is the point of the 'Major's' anyway?

We also pay an extra $5 for prize support - but I don't think I've ever seen any of it at Cancon or Eucbowl. Can someone elighten me as to what this gets spent on?

Obviously I'd like to see a much more professional site. It should be easier to browse rankings (sortable), it would also be cool if there were achievements/badges that could be displayed on your profile (50 TD's, 100 CAS, Played with each team etc...)

The NAF has some nice branding, it should make better use of it. How about limited sets of block dice (the NAF needs to make block dice) for tournament winners? Who wouldn't want a set of gold dice to remind his/her opponents of a previous victory.

I think a limited star player each year would be grand as well

In short, I don't think that a community organisation that seems to be very euro-centric can effectively proselytise the game on the ground in Australia or NZ, so I'd like a nice portal coupled with scare trinkets and baubles (which lets face it is what people like about NAF) to be dished out so that we can do that ourselves.

[Virral]

We also pay an extra $5 for prize support - but I don't think I've ever seen any of it at Cancon or Eucbowl. Can someone elighten me as to what this gets spent on?

As the organiser of Euc Bowl I can assure you that money does make it to me and does go towards the event, normally towards prizes. In previous years I've often not taken the full allotment so that more money goes to other events, because we've often seen a higher than average proportion of sign ups thanks to the release schedule of the dice.

I know that's also true for other events, often when Babs or Sangraal can't make it themselves, the TO's handle sign ups and they keep the $5 per registration.

[Olaf the Stout]

We also pay an extra $5 for prize support - but I don't think I've ever seen any of it at Cancon or Eucbowl. Can someone elighten me as to what this gets spent on?

As the organiser of Euc Bowl I can assure you that money does make it to me and does go towards the event, normally towards prizes. In previous years I've often not taken the full allotment so that more money goes to other events, because we've often seen a higher than average proportion of sign ups thanks to the release schedule of the dice.

I know that's also true for other events, often when Babs or Sangraal can't make it themselves, the TO's handle sign ups and they keep the $5 per registration.

I've definitely got the prize support as a result of players renewing their NAF membership at SSB. All the NAF money goes back to Babs, but the following year I am able to get prize support equal to $5 per renewal the previous year.

In previous years this has added a full team and some single minis to the prize pool.

Olaf the Stout

[Darkson]

On the topic of the Oz price support (which now it's been explained, I think is a great idea), was this something the coaches themselves instigated over time, or something put in place by the NAF?

[sann0638]

Obviously I'd like to see a much more professional site. It should be easier to browse rankings (sortable), it would also be cool if there were achievements/badges that could be displayed on your profile (50 TD's, 100 CAS, Played with each team etc...)

Ooh, that's a good idea. I wish you could highlight posts within a thread.