State of the NAFtion

[Pipey]

Just to provide a little more info regarding the Newsletter distribution costs - the NAF pays £100 a month to use DotMailer (which allows us to email 1000s of members at once with embedded links to their personal NAF details). It's the same function that allows us to email the whole membership with information about elections and the like. 12 months of that is £1200. Hope that's clearer now

[SinisterDexter]

Thanks Pippy, and yes, that does make it much clearer.

[Virral]

Indigo, I literally cannot believe you said that given your last contribution to the discussion. Seriously, try taking your own advice.

As I said, I don't think I'm being particularly hostile and I certainly am not spoiling for a fight. I literally apologised for coming across that way, and your response is to call me "extremely confrontational and constantly spoiling for a fight". I am not going to be shouted down, and these efforts to try and shame me for raising these questions are both futile and transparent. I welcome calm and reasonable discussion, but this is the last time I'll respond directly or indirectly to someone trying to incite argument, and I deeply regret getting sucked into doing so as much as I already have.

Thanks for the explanation on the emails Pippy. I got my first newsletter today after a private discussion with Sann to get me on the list, and it's nice but I feel like something similar could be achieved for free via mail merge. Perhaps something for discussion by the committee at some point? Still though it's a revelation to me that these newsletters have been happening at all, for some reason my email was not on the list despite being a paid up member. Sann has given me a link to where to find them so I look forward to reading back over past issues!

Also thank you to Geggster, I assure you I meant no disrespect earlier either. It's impossible to question anything financial without involving the treasurer and I think it's awesome that you've been so willing to respond even when it was obvious you were feeling personally attacked. I hope I didn't make that feeling worse, it really wasn't my intent

[Anthony_TBBF]

If you want change, run for President and make it happen

[Indigo]

Indigo, I literally cannot believe you said that given your last contribution to the discussion. Seriously, try taking your own advice.

As I said, I don't think I'm being particularly hostile and I certainly am not spoiling for a fight. I literally apologised for coming across that way, and your response is to call me "extremely confrontational and constantly spoiling for a fight". I am not going to be shouted down, and these efforts to try and shame me for raising these questions are both futile and transparent. I welcome calm and reasonable discussion, but this is the last time I'll respond directly or indirectly to someone trying to incite argument, and I deeply regret getting sucked into doing so as much as I already have.

Thanks for the explanation on the emails Pippy. I got my first newsletter today after a private discussion with Sann to get me on the list, and it's nice but I feel like something similar could be achieved for free via mail merge. Perhaps something for discussion by the committee at some point? Still though it's a revelation to me that these newsletters have been happening at all, for some reason my email was not on the list despite being a paid up member. Sann has given me a link to where to find them so I look forward to reading back over past issues!

Also thank you to Geggster, I assure you I meant no disrespect earlier either. It's impossible to question anything financial without involving the treasurer and I think it's awesome that you've been so willing to respond even when it was obvious you were feeling personally attacked. I hope I didn't make that feeling worse, it really wasn't my intent

You're not being shamed for asking questions, it's the perceived tone of the questions AND the way you've answered the several people who have picked you up on it.

And rest assured, were we face to face, I'd still say "steady on!" were you in the same room!

[Elyoukey]

T Offer to help via a PM to NAF staff or something.

Please define "or something". I had an issue with the eurobowl trophy, i would have liked to send a message to the right person, but i could not find the organigram so i could not find who to send a message to. I expected this information to be clearly pointed on the website and it was not, so i created a post on the NAF forum. in the end i had answers but i still don't know how official they are.

[sann0638]

Here, for the moment, but you're right it needs to be signposted: http://www.nafnewsletter.com/general/ntos.html

[Winged_Human]

@Johnny-P: +1 and more. Were I not already working a 40+ hour job, going to culinary school full time, playing in 2 (maybe 3 soon) BB leagues, and taking care of my family (wife+4kids) I would definitely run for pres. of NAF. Maybe after schooling ends in a couple of years.

So far I'm seeing a few reoccurring themes pop up among this discussion and I would like to add a bit of constructive criticism to the thread:

1) communication: I don't believe that a single person to speak up on this thread has stated that they're completely satisfied with the level of communication from the NAF committee (top down), though at the same time it does seem that some if not all members of that committee are attempting to reach out more, and I for one greatly appreciate it. Here are some suggestions that I would like to make to help the NAF committee EVEN more with communication to the NAF members

1a) Reporting. currently are there any types of reports that the committee members must produce and share with the populous? IMO, reporting is directly related with accountability. My suggesting would be to come up with a report template for each committee member to produce once a quarter that detailed at a minimum these things:
i)Projects worked on over the last 3 months, progress made, updated status on project, and projected completed date
ii)Current projects completed since last election cycle
iii) pipeline of future projects to be worked on as well as a timeline of expected project start date

These reports should be put up on the NAF site and kept for at a minimum of 5 years, not only for general NAF members, but also for future NAF committee members.

1b) Meeting Minutes. Do the committee members meet regularly to discuss NAF issues? If so how do they meet? Is it in person, or over skype, IRC, telephone? Also, is anyone keeping a minutes of these meetings? If not they should. It would to a great service to every member to be able to see what was discussed in these meetings, and how their elected committee members responded to certain issues brought up. Case in point, the support of the Spike! cup trophy. without a meeting minutes we don't know who was for or against the idea of this support, so I as a member have no choice but to NOT vote for anyone on the committee if I did not support that decision, or vote for ALL the members of the committee if I DID support it.

2) Website. Like reporting I don't believe that anyone in this thread has been able to say they're 100% completely satisfied with the website. Some suggestions to help resolve this issue.

2a) In the event there isn't someone whose sole purpose is to manage/maintain/update the website, then there should be one. this role would be the direct point of contact between the NAF population and any website projects, and would be responsible for reporting like any other committee members.

2b) Poll the NAF for volunteers who have the technical expertise to work on the website, if none exist (or just don't have the time to volunteer) then bringing in a consultant to do projects to bring the website up to a standard that makes NEARLY EVERYONE happy, should then be able to be handed off to the website lead to manage and maintain.

3) Standardization and accountability. It seems that in the past the organization has had enough support from GW that policies were not put in place to standardize the rating system, and hold the TO's accountable for what types of tournaments were allowed to be uploaded and what weren't. Now I will NOT get into finger pointing, but I believe that it is the committee member who oversees the tournaments as well as the TOs responsibility to come to a consensus on how the rankings systems should work. then the TOs should be held accountable for all games uploaded into the rankings systems. I believe this will accomplish a few different objectives

3a) TO reporting. It's difficult for the NAF to say "YES we can support all Tourneys with new prize support" or "No it's out of budget" without the accountability of how many average yearly tournaments are ran, and how much the NAF would be responsible monetarily for that prize support.

3b) Happier player base. It will also allow the NAF membership to know and understand HOW the ranking systems work without the confusion of what's allowed and what's not.

3c) working hand in hand with the website lead this would open the door for alternative ranking systems for non "Traditional" BB games i.e. street ball, dungeon bowl, sevens, as well as a support framework for leagues.


I know that this might seem like a TON of work, which in actuality it is. but if we as an organization take these one step at a time, and begin reporting on that progress, I fully believe that the organization will never be put back into a state like it is now, which to put it simply is confusion.

This was not done to point out any one person's flaws, or to make an attempt at proving fault. My goal is to Look at where we as an organization are right now, analyze out hurdles, and come up with a plan to defeat those challenges.

thank you for listening.

[Colin]

Personally, I don't see the merit of having the same threads going on two different boards. If you're not a NAF member, you probably wouldn't be interested in this and if you're a NAF member, why wouldn't you just follow the one on the NAF site? I personally think that all NAF related stuff should be discussed on the NAF site, that's what it's supposed to be for. My suggestion would be, instead of having proactically the same threads on two different boards, why not just just post a message directing those interested that there is a particular discussion going on over on the NAF board. That would keep the NAF related discussion on the site it's meant to be on. Seems ridiculous that sometines there is more NAF related discussion going on over here than in the place it's supposed to be at. Would make the NAF site more important and useful to NAF members if all the NAF discussion went on over there.
Anyway, just a suggestion. Feel free to ignore and carry on.

[Winged_Human]

@Colin: I cannot get to the NAF site at work. But I can get to this one. that is why you see me post more here than there.

[Jonny_P]

T Offer to help via a PM to NAF staff or something.

Please define "or something". I had an issue with the eurobowl trophy, i would have liked to send a message to the right person, but i could not find the organigram so i could not find who to send a message to. I expected this information to be clearly pointed on the website and it was not, so i created a post on the NAF forum. in the end i had answers but i still don't know how official they are.

'Or something' in this case meant 'something similiar'. PM/Email/Twitter/Facebook/Phone Call to someone on NAF Staff and or NAF NTO/RTO

You are 100% right about expecting this information to be clear on the website. It should be.

However, in defense of the Newsletter that is emailed to all members (current email address on file).... there is a Contact section in there for regional NAF needs. That should be the best place to start. Sann has done a great job taking over the Media Officer duties from me. He's devoted the proper amount of time to Newsletters and NAF Social Media.

[sann0638]

He's devoted the proper amount of time to Newsletters and NAF Social Media.

Thanks, but I haven't, I've devoted ridiculously too much...

[generaljason]

Yes, it's a NAF major, I'm well aware of that. But it's also just one of hundreds of tournaments that the NAF sanctions each year. I'm not a fan of Old Boys Clubs, and I don't really think an established NAF Major deserves special treatment above and beyond the support granted to any other event. You clearly disagree, which is fine.

What are you saying - the community is fundraising "hundreds of" different trophies every year and they all deserve support? All the hundreds of tournaments out there have that same level of commitment and have all generated funds for themselves to warrant that kind of support? I think you know that's nonsense, so why even bring up "hundreds". Why not say "thousands" or "millions" while you're at it.

And what Old Boys Club are you referring to? All the NAF officials I cited are elected. Special Treatment? All I did was ask for help. If they had mentioned to me that maybe one day down the road someone may complain about it that they can't help us it would have been understood. Also, if they gave us funds, but refused everyone else I'd call it Special Treatment. Anybody on here ask first before they started crying?

This just reinforces the idea that you're special and deserve more than the average tournament organiser. And apparently that's true... so I guess that's nice for you?

I think NAF Majors are special. No I don't think I am or we are special. Read above: all I did was ask for help. I didn't say "We need help. We're special and rules don't apply to us."

Yes please do intentionally misinterpret me in the most sensational way possible.

you're welcome

It seems a bit under-the-table to me in that it was apparently a decision made by the Committee and I don't recall it being widely advertised at the time. There was no community consultation that I was aware of, and other areas (even other majors who should be on equal ground even by your own sense of priviledge) were not given the same opportunity to the best of my knowledge.

The Committee was elected. Also the Committee has never gone to the community for consultation on anything when they need to spend funds. Never. And nobody seemed to have a problem with what Paul was doing given the last election he ran uncontested. Widely advertised - would you have even read it anyway? "even other majors who should be on equal ground even by your own sense of priviledge) were not given the same opportunity to the best of my knowledge" Christ - did they ask for help? "Sense of privilege?" Seriously?

So yeah, based purely on the information available to me it sounded a touch iffy. I was hardly demanding your head on a pike.

I understand the latter, the former I wouldn't classify as iffy until I knew everything.

Ah, that's assuming they knew it was even an option, which I guess they might not since I know for a fact that the CanCon organisers were unaware that it might be. I think this was actually a pretty huge decision that the NAF Committee made, and if I'm honest I'm pretty shocked that *apparently* no community consultation was involved.

This is a message for the community as a whole: when in doubt ASK. Don't WHINE LATER when you didn't know something.

Wow, just wow. You clearly aren't familiar with me and that's cool, I don't spend much time here because we have our own forums. But I and plenty of others do a hell of a lot for the local community, gladly and not for any desire for personal reward. You could have come here and given a totally civil and polite explanation of the backstory I couldn't possibly have known based on the information I gleaned from that NAF financial report, but instead you came out guns blazing putting down an entire community because you clearly feel threatened and defensive about your precious trophy.

Yeah I never spend anytime on this forum either as I too have my own forum. The only time I get dragged onto here is when one of my members points out something ridiculous to me that I might want to respond to. And I also do things in my community for no personal reward. "Clearly feel threatened and defensive about your precious trophy?" Wow I guess you don't know me either.

I have no problem with you, and I think it's great that you guys pulled it together and got yourselves a neat trophy. But this chip on your shoulder about how much more important you are than others because your event is deemed a "Major" is pretty sad. I'd invite you to stop by ausbowl.com some time and take a look at some of the cool stuff we've done, rather than look down your nose at us.

Out of interest, this was the last result when the Aussies got together and made ourselves a trophy, for our Ausbowl State Championships. 100% community funded, just like everything else over here.

Dude I do not have a chip on my shoulder, and saying it over and over again isn't going to make that necessarily so. That's like me saying you have an inferiority complex. And I certainly don't look down on any events. That notion is "pretty sad". But I support the Majors and would support the NAF raising the bar for those events whenever it is financially viable, and whenever they are helping communities that are ALREADY helping themselves and not looking for an unsubstantiated hand-out.

Going ahead and lead the charge man on the NAF threads: If you want to get everyone to vote on whether the NAF should have supported us or not be my guest. If the community after a short polling time agrees with you, Thunderbowl WILL RETURN $1000 TO THE NAF EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY.

That work for you?
Craig.

EDITED: 2 typos

[Shteve0]

Craig mate, what Virral is saying is that international contributions have apparently been put in to a single country's event. He thinks that's inappropriate, you don't, and that's all fine.

He's also pointed out that other majors didn't receive offers of topups for trophies when they were casting their own. If new majors were told that NAF would match 40% of funds raised to a maximum of $1000 in order to cast their trophy, that would be different.

I do know who you are, and you've put in a remarkable amount of work to the hobby. I also know who Virral is, and can say the exact same about him. What he's saying does not diminish your achievements in any way, it simply reinforces the somewhat unfortunate impression that NAF is something of a closed shop to those without the necessary contacts, be that true or not.

Before I get caught in the crossfire here, please note that I'm not accusing anyone of anything; I'm just pointing out that the impression of nepotism, even misplaced, is dangerous for any organisation.

[Shteve0]

If you're not a NAF member, you probably wouldn't be interested in this

Fully disagree

Actually, you've hit right at the root of what I'm saying; the polar opposite stance, that the NAF should be focussing on reaching out to players who have declined to take up/renew their membership to find out what they can do to increase their footprint, is equally valid. NAF membership currently makes up only a small portion of BB coaches worldwide. Can it be legitimately considered representative of the whole, particularly if it looks only to its own membership for direction?

Not a value judgement, just an observation.