State of the NAFtion

[axiom]

I much preferred this thread when it was a nice amenable debate on whether NAF should make dice or figures...this current direction is pretty disappointing behaviour from adults (I presume) who all share a common love for a pretty cool board game.

I think I'll stick to the modelling threads in future guys.

[DarthBLU]

A few years ago, all my weekends were Blood Bowl and Blood Bowl. I spent a lot on Blood Bowl (attending tournaments, buying miniatures, clothing, commissioning for online leagues, etc), I even run a 80+ tournament. I joined NAF because I needed dices and I liked the idea of helping Blood Bowl get bigger, for me the real community was the guys I played with every weekend all over Spain (some of them known to you Kewan, Doc Drak, Kerrunch, Frikipe, Pako because they are NAF and some of them not) and the guys from my local league.

Later, life happened and although I cut my hobby time a lot and stopped attending tournaments I still paid every year to help community, now I have more time again but I see that NAF hasn’t change much. The ideas I read on that post from 2007 and the ideas from Virral and Pako are the ideas that would make me renew again, different things, good ideas. Dices was a really good idea the first years but not anymore, now it's just ok.


I don’t know any of the staff but as things are quite similar than they were before I left, I think it’s time for a change. I watch it in my local wargames club, new ideas usually need new people, with more time and new strength, maybe not all of them but some of them. I hope nobody feels bad for this post, I’m trying to explain my opinion in a language that is not my mother tongue.

[Pakulkan]

My last shot before give up, turn off the NAF and forget all of this.

Some few sentences that I found that are pretty objective, and would appreciate to consider before continue. I would suggest that all of us, independently of what we think, take this in to consideration:

To lost the Block dice is a major issue for the NAF. It will progress in to a massive loss of members (It is not my thought, it is what I've heard all around: lots of people forgetting about NAF if there aren'nt dice).

Are members in general involved with NAF? Commited? Could we sincerely asume they are not here in a huge % for the dice?

What could NAF offer today, besides those dice? Is the NAF "competitive" in terms of info resources, gaming support (on-line and physically), members implication or even corporate image?

Did the NAF sensitive improvements since 2007? Correct me if I am wrong, I could recall: NAF trophy, NAF WC (massive goal), Tournament document, public accounts, face-to-face ranking info. We have other members goals: North America Champ, Spike Trophy, etc. that are not directly linked with NAF office.

Could we, sincerely, say that past years management has no influence in present situation?

Did not current NAF officers promised some key improvements since 2007, which are basicly not implemented yet? (Website, Downloads, Alternative Bloodbowl promotion, League Support)

Did not current NAF officers promised a better information flow, more open decission processes and a general enhanced involvement in members? Could we honestly say that this is what we already have?

It is a voluntary work exempted of any kind of responsibility? I mean, could you work for the Red Cross and simply kill people because you are a volunteer? Could you just mess up your father birthday because you organized it for free? How much important is to drive a thousands members organization all across the world with thousands euros of benefit?


I mean. Maybe I am lost. But NAF is the only one organization that I found (no matter voluntary or not) in which its responsables are not subjected to any kind of responsibility because of their acts, their management or their behavior.

It is SIMPLY hallucinating for me that we pretend to discuss about the future of the NAF without evaluate the wrong decissions that drived us to this crisis.

Nothing happened. We are near the NAF dead as a massive organization because of this bunch of uncomplished promises and lazyness and we some still pretend to convince that this happened suddenly, that NAF is a truly fantastic organization plenty of possibilities TODAY.

Heh.

As someone pretended to present STARS and QUILT as useful resources in 21st century during NAF elections. It is not a question of point of view. we have the clues, the promises and the acts.

To whom still loves the past 6 years f nothing, I couldn't say anything else. God save the Queen and blah blah blah until if it finally doesn't kill the NAF, next crisis born from lazyness and self-sufficiency indeed kill it.

This is our groundline, and I truly believe if we don't think about it, is senseless to think in the future.

@ Joemani: If someone asks for ideas, not all of us have enough with scream "Hail, Lycos!"

[plasmoid]

Hi Darkson,

No thanks - D6s not so bad, but how many D8/D16 do you really need? (Though I guess the same could be said of Block dice! )

I think my favourite gobbo team could do with some gobbo themed dice. My creepers team could certianly do with creeper dice, and.... Well, you get the picture
Cheers
Martin

[Pug]

Oh...halfling "Sacred Pie" themed please!

[Aino]

"order order"

I wont meddle in the personal debates, accusations etc.

NAF to me represented nothing much. Just a small extra cost every year to get 3 block dice and maybe some discount on tournament entry fees.
I don't play as much as I want to. Don't have time to train or to really worry about rankings (but like to know just how average I am at BB nonetheless).
Actually the BB community for me is the one here on TFF. Never even went to the NAF forum, which is a shame really.

I am not saying it is NAF's fault per se. However, I am quite sur I had no access to the forum in the beginning when I was not a NAF member (some years ago already). That is why I ended un on TBB at the time and was happy to see it was not all about competitive gaming but also a lot on miniatures, painting, modelling etc. Just wondering; do they have something like the yearly "legacy team" on the NAF? If not, it seems odd, as if people were more passionate about the game here on TFF (...which is my case...)
Maybe all could have been different if I got access to the NAF Forum back then.
Why do I not go to the NAF Forum now? Maybe it has something to do with the site, maybe I just a person stuck in old habits...

This being said
Strange times...exciting times. With the annual block dice gone and the most credible rumours yet on the September (?) blackbox, I feel NAF is bound to go through a metamorphosis this year.
I for one have never been so interested in NAF's future than now. I admit I never voted on any of the previous NAF elections, but am looking towards the next one (when is it?... ok ok maybe I should go to the NAF website).

Some here suggested a lot of nice changes (improving the website, showcasing the game, maybe even merging fora (?)...) and are critical about the achievements of the current NAF staff. I sincerely hope thay will run in the following elections and explain how they would tackle not only the problems past but also the near and distant issues (see above; block dice, positoning towards GW,possible new BB release, online community integration or not?,...)
If the current NAF officials are interested in the next elections I am sure they will see these latest events and difficult dicussion as a serious wake-up call and make significant improvements in their actions towards the community. You have been talking about revamping the website for years? Show us some progress ... The "opposition" can get away with words as for now. People in leadership positions have to act on top of it.

Again, I'm sitting on the fence here. Not much value observed (but might have been blind to it until now), but no strong feeling against NAF either... NAF; win me over!

William - Aino

[Gaixo]

For Aino:

Next presidential election is January 2014, Treasurer March 2014 then Tournament in July 2014 I think.

(I had wondered the same thing)

[Digger Goreman]

...
I for one have never been so interested in NAF's future than now....
If the current NAF officials are interested in the next elections I am sure they will see these latest events and difficult discussion as a serious wake-up call and make significant improvements in their actions towards the community....
Show us some progress ... The "opposition" can get away with words as for now. People in leadership positions have to act on top of it....
William - Aino

Here, here!

Your greatest teachers are your greatest critics!!! At one time I think Darkson and I would have been "Queens Boxing" vs "Tai Chi" had we met in person Not turning him off during the years I have come to an admiration for his positions (most of them) and his extraordinary miniatures insight and organization. If I met Darkson today, I would definitely offer a libation and first rights in conversation on any and everything... I think I would be enriched... no matter what he thinks of me now....

and,

yes,

I speak my mind the same from behind keyboard and in person....

The point? Oh, yeah! Every "problem" (defined as a situation being other than an individual wants it to be) is also an opportunity....

In reality, even the NAF critics are opening the door for NAF improvement....

[Dave]

Here is an event that just finished which used Street Bowl rules.

true .. but no matches are recorded or entered in the database.
a tournament that's not 'ordinary BB' can get acknowledgement but can't get entered in the rankings (at least it's not supposed to happen, don't shoot me if it accidentaly did happen once or twice)

[sann0638]

Lol - that's what I said, see a few more posts down!

[Dave]

I was a few pages behind, I stand corrected and will take it up with pippy

[Kikurasis]

Just a couple of points I'd like to make:

1] The idea of the NAF is awesome. To want to be able to bring all the Blood Bowl players across the world, so we can talk about and enjoy the hobby together is a great goal.

2] As it stands now, with a $10 annual fee, if there's not a decent reason to belong, I don't feel I need to. Let me put it in terms of an example:

Here in North America, there are no discounts for going to tournaments as a NAF member, as opposed to being one. Let's take the Chaos Cup coming up in September. I can pre-reg as a NAF member, but that's all it'll get me. I don't go to many tournaments during the year, so why would I pay $10 to allow me to pre-reg for a tourney? Pre-reg has discounts (on this one, but many don't around my area), but the flexibility that not pre-registering gives me in testing my roster is something I value too.

I'm not saying it needs to be block dice, but the "free" gift either needs to be something useful specific to the game of Blood Bowl (range ruler, figs, block dice, etc.), or else I can just get whatever it is (dice) elsewhere. That's even if it's offered. I wouldn't mind just paying a smaller amount and not getting anything.

3] I'd pay more if the NAF did more. By this, I mean, why isn't there a standard tournament package sent out to tournaments? Say, a small box for tournies up to 20 people, a medium box for those at 21-50 (historical or predicted on pre-reg), or a large box to 51+ and majors? In the box could be the NAF trophies, small awards, and other collectibles. I'd pay my memberships dues happily if I knew that the money was helping supply tournaments with prizes and awards, even though I don't go to many.

There are so many things the NAF could be.

[sann0638]

3] I'd pay more if the NAF did more. By this, I mean, why isn't there a standard tournament package sent out to tournaments? Say, a small box for tournies up to 20 people, a medium box for those at 21-50 (historical or predicted on pre-reg), or a large box to 51+ and majors? In the box could be the NAF trophies, small awards, and other collectibles. I'd pay my memberships dues happily if I knew that the money was helping supply tournaments with prizes and awards, even though I don't go to many.

Another great idea, though a bit tricky to "police"! Keep 'em coming...

[nonumber]

Some of the comments in this thread are now leading to the bizarre. Comparing the president of a board game membership club not updating the website to being a member of the red cross and killing people. Riiiiight.

Why the demand for financial transparency? (which has been there all along apparently). For the past 10 years £5 has bought me a set of dice worth more than £5. I literally could have sold my dice every year on ebay and gained NAF membership with a profit. I'm not saying Lycos & co. should be using NAF funds for a skiing holiday, I'm just saying if they were it's no skin off my nose. Now the dice have been taken away and people are losing their collective minds and I feel just as dissapointed as the next guy but I'm more than willing to give another year of support for some back issue dice or the replacement D6. It does kind of seem like they're just an easy thing to make a controversy about.

If what Geggster is saying is true, and that Lycos' negotiations kept individual Blood Bowl figures on the GW site well I've benefitted from that several times. I'm sure that communicating with GW regarding Blood Bowl is something of a minefield at times so I'm personally grateful for the effort the guys put in in that respect. GW own the licenses, they own the trademarks, they hold the cards. I think the idea we can just do our own thing forever and ever without any consequences is kind of naive and I'm staggered by the amount of people that actually hold that belief.

Yes the NAF website is a problem and I am on board with the idea that it needs to see changes, and I do believe this board should be in some way linked. But the vitriol as it has been mentioned has been around these forums for a while now, whether it's moaning about mean ol' granny and her space marines (yawn) or bash teams being overpowered or AG4 teams being overpowered or how things aren't like they were back in the good old days. Negativity festers here and I don't blame axiom for saying he'll stick to the painting forums. It seems certain posters just come here to vent and it really doesn't create a positive atmosphere. A lot more gets said about what people don't like about the game than what they do like about it.

That said, it would be nice to have a few more regular posts from the NAF team here on TFF without topics like this having to drag them out.

[Podfrey]

The NAF will continue. We won't see a return to some form of pre-NAF post-apocolyptical world - even if there are changes on the committee. Someone will step up to the plate.

Change can either be good or bad. Good change improves the situation (and it appears the majority agree it does need improving). Bad change makes it worse (so let's try and avoid that please ).

Stagnation, however, should not be tolerated as it is definitely bad for any organisation.

---

There is a short period now until Presidential Elections are due to commence (Dec 6th if this thread is anything to go by - apologies for all you non-NAF members...get yourself signed up to read it and join in the fun!!). Let's not start fighting amongst ourselves now with talk of "vote of no confidence".

The ship will be OK until December, then we can see whether a new Captain is needed or not.

Until then, please can everyone play nice (or as nice as possible ). Thank you.