State of the NAFtion

[sann0638]

Can you tell me how many dice were produced in the run of Silver Marble sets? I've always been pretty curious about how many dice the NAF produce... more so now I'm a "Dice Czar" as someone called me earlier in the thread

I can't! As I said at the beginning, I'm short on inside knowledge.

[Glowworm]

Yes, it could have happened sooner, but they have lives outside this community as well.....

Wasn't true for me last week, which is how we got in this situation!

Then get a life

@virral: do you guys get the " little trophies" ? I could understand if you got prize support instead of them, in which case maybe the NAF. Could give tournament organisers a choice when they applied for sanctioning.... " NAF. Shield or XX amount ( local currency) in support? " but if you get both, well, that may need addressing, but TBH, it's minor to everything else...

I did suggest ( jokingly) the the NAF. And TFF merge to become...."TalkNAF" earlier in this thread, others seem to agree that it may be an idea worth looking at, although you would have to still allow access to nonNAF members of course.

Who runs TFF? How would they feel about it? Would they agree? Could the rankings be " ported" Over or would we start new ones , judging by what I've discovered today, I'd vote new, with separate rankings for streetbowl, 7s ect.... Would the NAF agree? If not, why not?

I don't want to storm NAF Hq, knock down the gate and burn the castle*, I'd just like the occupants to step out ( like Sann's and now Geggster are now doing) and communicate, not promise " new website and more transparency" as has been promised before. I think a lot of what has been posted has been on both sides of these threads has been personal, lets not go down that road, we saw it in the last elections and it wasn't pretty, in fact it's probably why few members voted, thread after thread of accusation, counter accusation that descended into personal attacks.

* I'm not sure if NAF Hq is a castle, it may be an underground bunker or even a lair.....

[Virral]

Hmm, well I can see from the 2012 accounts (which I quite literally would have never found if Geggster hadn't said they existed) there were ~ 2100 subscriptions in 2012 and the silver dice cost 555 pounds to produce. So I guess at least 6500 cubes, probably a fair few more?

I notice that there is nothing about Australasia in the finances which is interesting, since I suspect our membership levels are at least on par with the Americans.

A few other random thoughts from looking at it:

1000 USD spent remaking a trophy for a particular tournament? Err...

1205 GBP spent posting out hardcopy newsletters in the Europe? Err... please stop spending money on hardcopy newsletter to a portion of the membership!

1560 GBP on a 2013 deposit for the NAF Championship when in 2011 the deposit was only 100 GBP. In 2011 the NAF Championship made a profit, but in 2012 it made a (very) small loss. What is going to happen this year with an initial outlay apparently 15 times the size of last year? I know it's the "NAF Championship" but why are subscription fees being used at all for a single tournament held in a single country? Particularly such a large event that really should be able to stand on it's own two feet (speaking here as a TO for Australia's largest tournament).

From 2011, nearly a $5000 USD "loan" to a World Cup team? What on earth is going on there and when is that loan getting repaid?

[Virral]

@virral: do you guys get the " little trophies" ? I could understand if you got prize support instead of them, in which case maybe the NAF. Could give tournament organisers a choice when they applied for sanctioning.... " NAF. Shield or XX amount ( local currency) in support? " but if you get both, well, that may need addressing, but TBH, it's minor to everything else...

We get both, but as I said we basically pay extra for that support. The same amount goes to the NAF, our guy here just skims that extra off the top and keeps it for prize support (but, you know, officially and not in a dodgy way).

If Australians renew on the website rather than at a tournament, I believe the full $15 goes to the NAF and nothing goes for prize support. Plus then the poor soul has a few months to wait before they receive their dice

[Pakulkan]

Lucy and me chose the NAF WC venue, you should know that by now, or do you mean location i.e. city?

1- About city.

2- But no answer about money expenditures in NAF WC as well. Even being the question in the same post. No one knows how money was spent in this tournament (BTW, I asked about it two years ago) even being a NAF dependent event.

That's NAF way to be open and answer questions. Took what you want to answer, when you want to answer, and answer in the way you prefer. Pretty convenient.

[Pakulkan]

Pako - I'm not sure what you are "DONE" from, NAF I would assume. This would be a shame, and I mean that, but if you are going to spout bilge like this, then perhaps I won't mourn you leaving.

Don't go through that, Paul Geggster, as known, one is slave of his words, and you said many, many words.

Ok, let's see...

Not sure I am happy with that theory. No my reason for standing is that I think 99% of coaches, maybe more, think the NAF is three dice and/or a ranking. I want to change that. I want the NAF and the web site to be more than that. Not to replace TBB in any form because that is great, but to be a central point for so much more that we can offer as a community.
I want it to be the point players go to download PDF format play guides for races written by you the coaches. I want it to be a place that all BB related internet links can be launched from within the game.
I want to see a section for great painted teams, great stadiums made by you guys, and more emphasis on what we do as a community. I don???t feel we should replace any website but more encourage new ones and let the NAF members have easy access to them. It maybe we have links to dozens of sites and why not? The NAF should not present itself as an exclusive club but it should embrace all levels of the game. We should encourage streetbowl, beachbowl and some of derivates because at the end of the day it???s a game, it???s not life or death. I won???t deny that in keeping with the previous committee I will be continuing the move for separate rankings on all these variants but yes, they should be both encouraged and recognised.

There is so much more we can do than offer three dice and a ranking for members. We just have to break out from the mentality that that is what the NAF is to some people. I want to change that.

Look at. 2007. Quite a number of years accumulating bilge and trying to be polite with you at the same time, guys.

I know you will be happy if me and everyone else disgusted with NAF just leaves. But hey, what about to consider if you really fail? Look at these sentences from 6 years in the past.

Do you really thing you accomplished these proposals? Proposals also made in 2009 and 2011. I have many many citations over there to paste them here if you want how miserably you uncomplished your promises.

Ah, yeah, it is voluntary work. Damm...

It is our fault because we are wasted and discouraged beacuse of your behavior?

As said, shame all you, NAF officers.

[sann0638]

Hmm, well I can see from the 2012 accounts (which I quite literally would have never found if Geggster hadn't said they existed) there were ~ 2100 subscriptions in 2012 and the silver dice cost 555 pounds to produce. So I guess at least 6500 cubes, probably a fair few more?

I notice that there is nothing about Australasia in the finances which is interesting, since I suspect our membership levels are at least on par with the Americans.

A few other random thoughts from looking at it:

1000 USD spent remaking a trophy for a particular tournament? Err...

1205 GBP spent posting out hardcopy newsletters in the Europe? Err... please stop spending money on hardcopy newsletter to a portion of the membership!

1560 GBP on a 2013 deposit for the NAF Championship when in 2011 the deposit was only 100 GBP. In 2011 the NAF Championship made a profit, but in 2012 it made a (very) small loss. What is going to happen this year with an initial outlay apparently 15 times the size of last year? I know it's the "NAF Championship" but why are subscription fees being used at all for a single tournament held in a single country? Particularly such a large event that really should be able to stand on it's own two feet (speaking here as a TO for Australia's largest tournament).

From 2011, nearly a $5000 USD "loan" to a World Cup team? What on earth is going on there and when is that loan getting repaid?

All good questions, but probably better put in a PM to Geggster rather than relying on him reading this thread?
I have no insider knowledge, but my reading is that the loan was for the team running the world cup for all the upfront costs - if you look further down you will see it has been repaid! I guess the same goes for the NAF champs, I think it's reasonable to use the NAF money to put a deposit down for the tournament that bears its name.

A related thought - maybe in the future the 5 majors would become "NAF Champs UK", "NAF Champs Germany" etc?

[sann0638]

Here is an event that just finished which used Street Bowl rules.

Interesting - if you click view matches then nothing comes up. I wonder if it was agreed not to submit the matches so that they did not count for rankings?

But again, good question to go to Pippy/Xtreme/Valdric in PM so they can answer it.

[Virral]

It was only the other week, id guess results just arent up yet.

Not sure if youve ever put results in the system but its a real swine.

[Virral]

Here is a 2012 Street Bowl event with loaded matches.

http://thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF& ... ew&id=1651

There are loads in the system.

[Geggster]

I notice that there is nothing about Australasia in the finances which is interesting, since I suspect our membership levels are at least on par with the Americans.

A few other random thoughts from looking at it:
1000 USD spent remaking a trophy for a particular tournament? Err...
1205 GBP spent posting out hardcopy newsletters in the Europe? Err... please stop spending money on hardcopy newsletter to a portion of the membership!
1560 GBP on a 2013 deposit for the NAF Championship when in 2011 the deposit was only 100 GBP. In 2011 the NAF Championship made a profit, but in 2012 it made a (very) small loss. What is going to happen this year with an initial outlay apparently 15 times the size of last year? I know it's the "NAF Championship" but why are subscription fees being used at all for a single tournament held in a single country? Particularly such a large event that really should be able to stand on it's own two feet (speaking here as a TO for Australia's largest tournament).
From 2011, nearly a $5000 USD "loan" to a World Cup team? What on earth is going on there and when is that loan getting repaid?

Good questions but quite an accusatory way of asking.

When I took over, we only had a dollar account. I started running balances in our other two main currencies, sterling and euros, to lessen currency rate risk and conversion costs. I haven't done so in Aussie dollars and we don't have anyone actually paying their membership in AU$. If there's a large number, maybe that's something worth looking at.

*$1000 were used to help the Canadians recast the Major Trophy. This was discussed at some length at committee level but helping the major Canadian tournament was deemed a good use of NAF funds.
*£1205 represents the cost for the global emailed newsletter for 2012. Everyone gets this – but it is paid for in sterling so comes out of that currency.
*The NAF Championship was at Warhammer World in 2012. The hall cost £400 - deposit was £100 of this. The new 2013 venue, a conference centre, cost A LOT MORE and needed the deposit covering otherwise it could not have been booked, allowing people to then start buying tickets. The deposit was fully recovered with ticket sales.
*The Loan to the World Cup team went along the same lines – it was necessary for the organising team to help fund the event and was recovered by sales – and it was fully repaid further down the accounts (in euros).

Hope that helps.

[sann0638]

It was only the other week, id guess results just arent up yet. Not sure if youve ever put results in the system but its a real swine.

I haven't had the pleasure! But I'm trying to put together a document together about how to do it - I'll quote you

Here is a 2012 Street Bowl event with loaded matches.

Good to know, and a good question to go to Pippy.

[Gaixo]

Can you tell me how many dice were produced in the run of Silver Marble sets? I've always been pretty curious about how many dice the NAF produce... more so now I'm a "Dice Czar" as someone called me earlier in the thread

I'm that someone! Seriously, if the NAF can be convinced to vet new dice designs, I would hope that you would be available to run the selection process and guide their eventual production.



In regard to "alternative" rules sets, here is an upcoming Deathbowl tournament, the description of which states how the results will be entered for NAF ranking:
http://thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF& ... ew&id=1952
To me, this seems even more unusual than including Street Bowl results.

I'd like to see this sort of thing reined in, but I wouldn't want to see it become too stringent. Many tournaments include their own Star Players and things of that sort, for instance. Hopefully that wouldn't be enough to disqualify them.

[Darkson]

@Glow - no I wouldn't, because I have the organizational skills of a drunk gnat, and I could only make things worse. However, just because I can't do the job, doesn't mean I shouldn't have some expectation from those that claim they can.
Yes, they are volunteers, yes, real life can get in the way, but they put themselves up for the positions, and at the end of the day, I'm basing on the results of what they've achieved. Let's be honest, "transparency" and "more communication" aren't things that cost big bucks, and they're both still sorely lacking.

In turn interest of fairness, because Paul seems to be taking it personally, I don't a problem with the job he's doing. I personally don't think the accounts need more detail than they have. I do have an issue with the amount of money the NAF is "sitting" on, but that's not specifically his job to spend.

Sann, are you now on the committee? Was not aware of that if so (one for the media officer to communicate ), but if so, put it on record that I've no issue with your job either. You made more strides forward than most, and I know you're reliant of people submitting stuff to you for you to report.

P.s. Glow, Hawk has your trees.

[spubbbba]

To me as a player the NAF is exactly two things. The rankings, and the dice.

I think this is how a lot of people see the NAF. I’ve been a member for a few years and have found out more about it reading this thread than all that time.

The thing is if you don’t attend NAF sanctioned tournaments is there any point in being a member anymore? There are loads of nice dice D6’s out there that will likely cost you less than the membership fee. You can even club together with friends and design your own unique set.

So the question is should the NAF focus mainly on those who attend tabletop tournaments or try to broaden the appeal to coaches in leagues and online? I know there is often friction between online and tabletop coaches but they are a big part of the BB community. Soon the only money GW will get from the game will be via Cyanide’s efforts (some people will still buy other GW models to convert but they have no way of knowing that).

I’ve always thought it would be cool to have a big Swiss style online tournament. It would allow people from around the world to play each other, as it takes a lot of time and money to attend the BB Euro or world cups. Have it open to NAF members and include it in the rankings to better avoid people dropping out if they lose early games.