2013 NAF Dice Announcement on thenaf.net

[Heff]

Membership expired today. Bully me for a fiver Dave.

[Gaixo]

I have to question what the NAF actually benefits from being associated with GW now?

As far as I can see with the GT no longer being held at Warhammer World and GW getting rid of specialist game this looks to be the last link to them being broken.

It looks like GW has already removed everything “official”, such as the trophy so why not come up with a set of custom block dice and release a new colour every year? Whilst you couldn’t copy their designs having a skull, 2 arrows, explosion and explosion with other symbol on it is very generic.

Couldn't GW effectively shut the NAF site down, as it relies so heavily on the use of trademarked materials? I would have to think that's a concern. Unlike miniature manufacturers, the NAF can't bill itself as a "Fantasy Football" site, but must refer to Blood Bowl, the various races, etc.

I agree with Virral that the NAF has just lost a huge enticement for potential members. Most tournaments give out custom d6s, often two sets. I know of several that also include matching d8s and d16s. If a player has just been handed a half dozen complimentary dice, another handful at $10 might be a tough sell.

I also think the announcement was handled rather poorly. In a discussion on 2013's dice color, we were told that there would be a "break with tradition" in the form of an early announcement this year. Obviously, the implication was that we would get to see the new block dice. Instead, we get this announcement, and are not even shown the dice. It just seems an odd thing to prime people for what is obviously bad news.

[SierraKiloBravo]

I have to question what the NAF actually benefits from being associated with GW now?

As far as I can see with the GT no longer being held at Warhammer World and GW getting rid of specialist game this looks to be the last link to them being broken.

It looks like GW has already removed everything “official”, such as the trophy so why not come up with a set of custom block dice and release a new colour every year? Whilst you couldn’t copy their designs having a skull, 2 arrows, explosion and explosion with other symbol on it is very generic.

Couldn't GW effectively shut the NAF site down, as it relies so heavily on the use of trademarked materials? I would have to think that's a concern. Unlike miniature manufacturers, the NAF can't bill itself as a "Fantasy Football" site, but must refer to Blood Bowl, the various races, etc.

I agree with Virral that the NAF has just lost a huge enticement for potential members. Most tournaments give out custom d6s, often two sets. I know of several that also include matching d8s and d16s. If a player has just been handed a half dozen complimentary dice, another handful at $10 might be a tough sell.

I also think the announcement was handled rather poorly. In a discussion on 2013's dice color, we were told that there would be a "break with tradition" in the form of an early announcement this year. Obviously, the implication was that we would get to see the new block dice. Instead, we get this announcement, and are not even shown the dice. It just seems an odd thing to prime people for what is obviously bad news.

1 - I'm curious to know the percentage of sites who've received cease and desist letters and ignored them, then the percentage of those where GW actually took action by filing suit.

2 - I'm disappointed with the prior announcements leading up to this as well. It reads as if NAF knew of this for some time and could have announced this earlier. Tough deal to say the least.

3 - The block dice were dominant and nearly the sole reason I joined NAF and renewed annually.

[DixonCider]

I was unable to see a preview of the d6, d8, and d16. Is there a pic on The NAF site? How would one go about ordering multiple colors of block dice?

EDIT: would be really cool if we could order a set of past block dice and get the d6, d8, and d16 to match

[sann0638]

No preview yet - that will appear Saturday morning, I think.

[DixonCider]

No preview yet - that will appear Saturday morning, I think.

excellent, thanks Sann

[Darkson]

I have to question what the NAF actually benefits from being associated with GW now?

As far as I can see with the GT no longer being held at Warhammer World and GW getting rid of specialist game this looks to be the last link to them being broken.

It looks like GW has already removed everything “official”, such as the trophy so why not come up with a set of custom block dice and release a new colour every year? Whilst you couldn’t copy their designs having a skull, 2 arrows, explosion and explosion with other symbol on it is very generic.

My thinking also. I get this nebulous desire to play nice with GW, but what exactly is the benefit of a good relationship with them now that the dice are off the table?

+1

Of course, there may be a reason for keeping on GW's good side, but if we're never told what that is...
From a members point of view, just seems like GW put obstacles in the way.

A brief list:

WC1 items like dugouts - GW blocked
Shield design - GW forced a change
And now the Block dice.

So what exactly do we get out of playing "nicey nicey" with them?

[Darkson]

For the record, if the D6 use the NAF shield, I'm happy with the change (though I agree with virral and gaxio that D6s don't have the draw of Block dice).

Would still like to know what we, the NAF, get out of playing nice with GW.

[Kikurasis]

So what exactly do we get out of playing "nicey nicey" with them?

Couldn't agree more with asking this question.

In fact, without any connection, there'd be no reason why a different set of blocking dice couldn't be made (cheaper, too, likely), and given away with the matching d6/d8/d16 as a set each year. GW obviously could care less about us, so as long as there's no infringement on the NAF's part, why not break it off?

[Winged_Human]

Also, leads to a better chance of accepting rosters like the Khorne roster...

Or I could just be wishing upon a star.

[robsoma]

I believe the NAFs position regarding the khorne roster had nothing to do with GW was more the fact that there was no official testing of the team ect.

Im looking forward to all the silly promises and claims that people will 'demand' GW supply block dice again, when the NAF presidency is up for nomination.

[Axtklinge]

For the record, if the D6 use the NAF shield, I'm happy with the change (though I agree with virral and gaxio that D6s don't have the draw of Block dice).

Yes, a set of NAF (logo) dice may be nice, but hopefully only this once.
I'd rather have NAF alter the design (slightly), and keep issuing Block dice then have a bunch of new D6, D8 and D16.
Plenty of those already.

What a turn-off...

[axiom]

Well that's a bit of a downer. The weekend will still be cracking, but the block dice were very much part and parcel of the officiality of the thing.

Great way for GW to kick the BB when it's already decided to break all ties

[Pitch Invader]

Any idea for their reason for this?

I can only think of three possibilities:

1. GW legal decided giving away free use of their IP set bad precedent and devalues the worth of their IP when they try to licence it for profit.
- why should a company like Fantasy Flight pay for something they give the NAF for free?

2. GW is adamant about killing Specialist Games. Stopping production isn't enough, they want to make it as hard as possible for people to continue to play the game, which they view as competition to their core games.
- don't know why they would have this view, but they do seem to (incorrectly) believe every Blood Bowl team purchased is a Space Marine army that they don't sell.

3. GW plans to release a new version of Blood Bowl in the future with a different sized pitch and different dice, so that all of the 'third party' products are obsolete.
- if so, they'd need to stop NAF from producing the old dice since GW wouldn't be supporting them anymore. The change from 2nd to 3rd ed made such things obsolete before, so it could be, but this seems the least likely to me because it contradicts the attitude of #2 above.

I'm curious as to 'why' but unless it is #3, it doesn't change much.

I like the idea of NAF, but honestly, I'm not competitive in that way, I don't care about my ranking. I play for fun and seeing my minis on the pitch.
So the biggest draw for me for NAF is the block dice.
The d6,8,16 set isn't much of a motivation really. As others have said, many tournaments give these away already, and having many d16 in various colors isn't as appealing as different block dice options.

I would imagine the biggest motivation NAF has to 'playing nice' with GW is the fear of GW playing even 'less nice' than they currently are.
To be blunt, GW is NOT playing nice when they pull the permission to produce Block Dice.

If the only benefit is to keep GW legal from issuing a cease & desist on the NAF website, I'd suspect it's time to convert the website to GW-free labeling as TFF did a few years ago and carry on without them: make new style Block Dice which I would think has a better chance of maintaining and growing membership than having 'Blood Bowl' named on the website.

Sorry for the length, I'm a wordy rambler.

[robsoma]

not sure what its like in the states but in the uk you tend to get a cheaper entry into tourniments for being a NAF member. so its not like all you got for joining was the dice