Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Porkus_Maximus]

OK so I've started a Nurgle team in BB:Legendary Edition and thrown them into matchmaking. One question I have that I don't think has been covered is; how should I prioritise my purchases? Does my environment require any tweaks to team development strategy? I opted for the beast, 4 warrior, 1 pestigor, 5 rotter, 2 reroll build and after my first game (win!) I have 50k in the bank. I'm assuming a second pestigor should be my top priority but after that is it wise to try to save for a 3rd Reroll with just a 11 man roster, or should I try bulking it up with rotters first?

[mattgslater]

Never hire Rotters, unless you have all your positionals and no more than four Rotters on the roster. Replace any dead NWs/BoN, then get yourself up to three Pests, then get the last Pest and TRR#3 in any order, then TRR#4 and you're done. With a peak cost of 1.38M and 140k burned cash on TRR purchases, you can't afford to hire anything off track.

[Porkus_Maximus]

I don't think avoiding rotters is totally viable given that the environment they're playing in is notoriously bash-heavy. If it wasn't for the fact that I had a modest bench I'd have been fielding 6-7 players for a second half in previous games, however after a game vs ogres my bench has been totally wiped out. So you would suggest pestigor #3 before reroll#3? I'll take that into consideration, but right now I'm really feeling the pressure of only having 2 RRs especially when I'm up against teams with a lot of natural starting skills.

EDIT: Played a couple more games, had some nice winnings so now have 3rd pest and 3rd reroll. Down to an 11 player roster with 30k in the bank, even some woodelves managed to RIP a rotter and give another one -AV. I definitely think I'm going to try and build up a bench after my next game but nothing to deep, 13 players sounds about right to me.

[Smeborg]

Porkus_Maximus - I have found out the hard way that it rarely pays to buy Rotters when you still have positional players to buy. If you do so, you risk getting into a death spiral, since the Rotters are anything but resilient. I normally start with the same roster as you, and buy 2 Pestigors before I think about buying anything else.

My advice would be not to worry about the 3rd re-roll - flesh out the roster with players first.

I have found that a 14 player roster works well in terms of both TV efficiency and practical play (i.e. not running out of numbers during a game). Bear in mind that you will commonly have a player (sometimes two) missing a game.

You will occasionally get a free Rotter by killing an opposing player, but this is a rare event, and cannot be counted on.

Hope that helps.

[Porkus_Maximus]

Smeborg - What do you think about Carnis' advice about only ever having 1 unskilled pestigor on the roster? I think I can appreciate his point, I currently have a pestigor with sure hands/block, a pestigor with wrestle and a rookie pestigor. I'm not sure a 4th pestigor would necessarily justify his 80k cost on the field when I could just use a 40k rotter in his place.

Unfortunately I have already purchased my 3rd re-roll, but I do not regret it. It is certainty a huge increase on my TV but I'm finding it harder and harder to keep momentum as my opponents increase in TV, and the 3rd re-roll has saved my skin when I've had a particularly bad run of dice. I will keep your advice about a "death spiral" in mind.

Current BB:LE MM roster;

Beast - rookie
Warrior - rookie x2
Warrior - block, guard
Warrior - block
Pestigor - sure hands, block
Pestigor - wrestle
Pestigor - block
Pestigor - rookie
Rotter - dirty player (niggling injury)
Rotter - kick (-AV, MNG)
Rotter - rookie
Re-rolls - 3
Fan Factor - 7
Treasury - 0k

So I'll be going into my next game with 10 players + 1 journeyman. I noticed a few pages back that you consider avoiding guard all together on warriors? I thought that was an interesting idea and I liked the concept of having lots of stand firm as a second skill, however with an environment that favours high strength/bashing teams I thought that I'd probably get more mileage out of guard. If I join any private leagues I'll definitely think about stand firm as a second skill if the opponent spread is a bit more even.

TV feels uncomfortably high at 1480, 70k of which is purely fanfactor. I certainly wouldn't mind playing in a league with free FF, or one that allows you to drop it.

EDIT: Had a very short game vs lizards where my opponent conceded after only 3 turns, so one of my rookie warriors and pestigors skilled up. Winnings were horrible considering a concession (50k after a reoroll!) but I decided to buy my 4th pestigor putting me at 12 players total.

[Carnis]

I thought that was an interesting idea and I liked the concept of having lots of stand firm as a second skill, however with an environment that favours high strength/bashing teams I thought that I'd probably get more mileage out of guard.

How does BB:LE favour high ST/basher teams?

[Porkus_Maximus]

I should have been more specific, the people playing in the BB:LE public leagues favour high strength/high armour bash teams because they are easier to maintain in a perpetual environment until they hit the higher TVs where claw/mb/po becomes widespread. There is also the unfortunate mentality amongst a large portion of players that team development is the most important aspect of the game, so coaches are prone to concession as soon as a few players are injured. Other coaches pick up on this, and so playing a killer team that forces concessions becomes a very viable strategy... more viable than in a private league. BB/BB:LE has also brought a lot of new blood to the game and I think new players tend to gravitate towards bashy teams, because smashing dudes and watching them go squish is a lot of fun after all.

With that being said, BB:LE is still new and people seem to be more willing to branch out and play the "new" teams, at least for now.

[mattgslater]

IME, concession is the biggest breaker of teams. I don't understand the idea of ever conceding.

[Porkus_Maximus]

Like I said, a lot of online players have a strong "pixel hugger" mentality and will concede at the first sign of blood on the pitch. Unfortunately the 51spp rule for star players is not in effect because it would kind of suck to have a bunch of players quit if you lost internet connection for some reason, however this does make conceding a viable method of team preservation. Since concessions are much more common place, killer teams end up with ridiculous treasuries up in the millions which means that spiralling expenses rarely affect them and if they wish to concede against an even more brutal team, then they can afford to. Alternatively you also have people who are attempting win streaks to attain higher rankings and they'll concede as soon as the dice turn sour, they're not interested in sticking around if they think they've already lost. Concede, delete the team and start again.

This is the unfortunate problem of introducing Blood Bowl to a MASS online audience, who don't seem to have the "Blood Bowl spirit" that you'd expect from tabletop players. Thankfully there are plenty of successful private leagues where this kind of behaviour is frowned upon.

[Smeborg]

Smeborg - What do you think about Carnis' advice about only ever having 1 unskilled pestigor on the roster? I think I can appreciate his point, I currently have a pestigor with sure hands/block, a pestigor with wrestle and a rookie pestigor. I'm not sure a 4th pestigor would necessarily justify his 80k cost on the field when I could just use a 40k rotter in his place.

So I'll be going into my next game with 10 players + 1 journeyman. I noticed a few pages back that you consider avoiding guard all together on warriors? I thought that was an interesting idea and I liked the concept of having lots of stand firm as a second skill, however with an environment that favours high strength/bashing teams I thought that I'd probably get more mileage out of guard. If I join any private leagues I'll definitely think about stand firm as a second skill if the opponent spread is a bit more even.

EDIT: Had a very short game vs lizards where my opponent conceded after only 3 turns, so one of my rookie warriors and pestigors skilled up. Winnings were horrible considering a concession (50k after a reoroll!) but I decided to buy my 4th pestigor putting me at 12 players total.

Pestigors: I'm not sure I understand Carnis' advice, since I would never retire a healthy Pestigor. I find that Pestigors are targets. For most of this season I have had only 2 skilled Pestigors (both rather good, though). I am back to 3 now. I would say that 3 Pestigors (skilled of course if possible) is the minimum effective number - 1 Runner (variable build) and 2 Blitzers (Wrestle, Fend, Tackle), one for each wide zone on defense. Maybe this is what Carnis means.

Stand Firm: My experience suggests that S-Firm and playing in a non-slayer style results in less damage to the team.

Roster: Your roster is fine and will grow to 14 and settle down now. I find 14 players and 3RR to be quite efficient, bearing in mind that Nurgle develop more slowly than other teams. It is important not to concede a Wizard to your opponent if you can help it.

Hope that helps.

[Porkus_Maximus]

Oh I would never dream of retiring a perfectly healthy pestigor, I interpreted his advice to mean; "Don't hire a new pestigor until you have skills for the current ones."

I am leaning towards the stymie style of play with future development, partly because it seems like the kind of build that utilises the most advantages for Nurgle but also because I'm curious to see if it can hold up to the bash-centric environment. I thought it'd be interesting to follow the progress of other nurgle teams in the public league, to see how people are developing them and how effective those builds are but my results are disappointing. In the public league that I'm part of (Naggaroth Open) the top 3 Nurgle teams are all built as killer teams, claw, mighty blow, piling on etc. with several concession wins under their belt. EDIT: Scratch that, my team is now the highest ranked Nurgle team. Hurrah for stymie style.

[Smeborg]

Oh I would never dream of retiring a perfectly healthy pestigor, I interpreted his advice to mean; "Don't hire a new pestigor until you have skills for the current ones."

I am leaning towards the stymie style of play with future development, partly because it seems like the kind of build that utilises the most advantages for Nurgle but also because I'm curious to see if it can hold up to the bash-centric environment. I thought it'd be interesting to follow the progress of other nurgle teams in the public league, to see how people are developing them and how effective those builds are but my results are disappointing. In the public league that I'm part of (Naggaroth Open) the top 3 Nurgle teams are all built as killer teams, claw, mighty blow, piling on etc. with several concession wins under their belt. EDIT: Scratch that, my team is now the highest ranked Nurgle team. Hurrah for stymie style.

Porkus - my experience is that the Nurgle team needs to have 8 out of 9 of its positional players at the start of a match in order to be properly resilient. Decay + no Regen + no Apoth is so bad, that you really need to minimise the number of Rotters on the pitch. Also, a Pestigor who is consigned to the dugout has a 50% chance of coming back for the next drive - that's an important advantage over a Rotter. The skill memory of Rotters is so bad that you are handicapping the team development if you start to rely on them (except in an emergency, of course, when it's fun).

Well done on going top of your league. I find the stymie style fits well with the Nurgle roster. It gets better results for me than a more slayer style. Good luck!

[Smeborg]

OK - here is my league team Poetry in Motion in its final form, as they now retire from competitive BB as it is the end of the season. They have finished second in the league, played 26 games (18 wins, 5 draws, 3 losses), TDs: 43-19, CAS: 63:38 (note that only the Beast has M-Blow, there has been no P-On, Claw or D-Player). The environment has been our mixed open league, matches have been against 4x each: Orc, Skaven, 2x each: Necro, Norse, Chaos, Humie, C-Pact, Lizzies, 1x each: Elf, 'Zon, DE, Dwarf, HE, Vamps. At least 15 of the 26 matches have been against the highest standard of coaches that the league has to offer. I am league commish, I usually offer my opponent choice of team to play against (I have several), therefore I have not played as many games with this Nurgle team as I would have liked.

Beast: Block, S-Firm (26)
Warrior: Block, S-Firm [new skill = Guard?] (31)
Warrior: Block, S-Firm (19)
Warrior: +1ST (13)
Warrior: - (4)
Pestigor: +AG, +ST, Dodge, Block, S-Hands (99)
Pestigor: Wrestle, Fend, Tackle (36)
Pestigor: [new skill = Wrestle] (8)
Pestigor: - (0)
Rotter: Block [-1AG] (6)
4 rookie Rotters: (5,5,3,0)
3xRR, 11xFF, TV 188
Treasury: 30,000 (may be understated)

Several features stand out: low TDs conceded (less than 3/4 per game), low TDs scored (well below 2 per game), good result efficiency in relation to TD record (10 out of 18 wins have been 1-0 or 2-1). Player turnover has been high: 1 Warrior, 6 Pests, 13 Rotters (20 deaths and retirements out of just 38 CAS suffered, appearing to confirm that my Regen rolls on Deaths and Permanent Injuries to Pestigors have been poor). 100 SPPs lost, 255 retained. Only 4 skilled players lost: 2 x 1-skill Pestigors (both: Wrestle), and 2 x 2-skill Rotters (both: Guard, Block). These all hurt. Only 2 SPPs lost on Warriors, though. CAS conceded is pleasingly low (1.5 per game). The team has managed for most of the season without Guard, made easier by having a well protected ST4 ball-carrier.

It's a bit of a shame I don't get to play a few more games, as several players (the Beast, the ST5 Warrior, 3 Rotters) are about to skill up, and a 3rd Pestigor has finally returned to the party. Poor Horny the Pestigor is for ever stranded on 99 SPPs, like Bradman. For this team, I incline to Guard as 3rd skill on the Beast and Warriors, Tentacles as 2nd skill on the ST5 Warrior, and F-App as 2nd skill on the Rotters. Not to be tested, sadly. I can't complain, however, the uneven development of the team seems to have helped its TV efficiency. This is the best league performance I have had with a Nurgle team, due mainly, I believe, to the coherence of the skill development plan.

All the best, and hope this example can help all you Nurgle coaches out there.

[Porkus_Maximus]

I was just listening to the Three Die Block nurgle podcast with you as a guest, and heard about your +AG+ST pestigor. Good to hear he survived the season, congrats on second place. I was surprised that you develop 3 pestigor with wrestle and fend as their first skills, it certainly fits the stymie style but it seems like you're passing up some great utility skills. With that said I can easily see how 4 individually skilled pestigors could end up diluting the overall team effectiveness, jack of all trades master of none etc.

Did you play with any house rules in regard to Fan Factor? That's a lot of TV to be giving away depending on the other teams' FF, I'm getting concerned about mine and it's only 8!

[Smeborg]

I was surprised that you develop 3 pestigor with wrestle and fend as their first skills, it certainly fits the stymie style but it seems like you're passing up some great utility skills. With that said I can easily see how 4 individually skilled pestigors could end up diluting the overall team effectiveness, jack of all trades master of none etc.

Did you play with any house rules in regard to Fan Factor? That's a lot of TV to be giving away depending on the other teams' FF, I'm getting concerned about mine and it's only 8!

Porkus -no house rules regarding FF - it just climbed from 0 to 11, especially as I had a run of wins near the end of the season. I run with no AC/CL to help keep TV low (I expect to get +1FAME most of the time). FF was 12 at one point, I think (a previous Nurgle team reached 13...). FF can drop very fast if you have a run of draws and/or losses.

With the exception of the Runner, I like to develop the other 3 Pestigors in the same way. They are specialists at hunting the ball. 4th skill would be 2-Heads (for mobility and potential cage-breaking). The Pestigors are targets, I don't like the idea of specialising with them, as the roster would risk becoming lopsided each time a specialist dies. I like generalists, especially on the Nurgle team. Once the Pests get to Wrestle/Fend, they are quite resilient, as well as posing a considerable annoyance to opponents. They also skill up well after that, since they take more blitzes (=CAS), and are more likely to be free and mobile to take a hand-off for a TD. Unskilled Pests, or Pests with just Wrestle, seem to have a pronounced tendency to die.

All the best.