Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Ullis]

How about a pair of fives on a rookie Pestigor?

I'm leaning towards dodge or +MA. I'm guessing Matt would say side step, but this is a PBEM league. In theory SS is just as good, but in practice it's either slightly nerfed or you have to slow the game down to accomodate it, so it'd have to have a clear advantage.

I always find myself pleasantly surprised by how effective +MA can be, especially if it gives you a player that's now faster than anyone else on the team. So I'd probably take +MA. I guess Dodge is another option.

[Ullis]

I rolled Extra STR on a Nurgle Warrior with Block. However I'm finding the league to be rather effectively bashy, and yet I'm not being out-strengthed. Admitted the Extra STR seems awesome, however I felt Jump Up would be my best option. It gives my NW easy repositioning if knocked down by an opponent who does not want to base. If they want to base, I've got a 66% chance to stand up and return the blocking favor.

Take the +ST. I'd hate to face your team when you get to the third skill and get Tentacles on the warrior. ST5 is much better than ST4 in terms of positioning. Opponents will be very hard pressed to move this guy. First they need lots of assists and that's before having to roll for Foul Appearance.

Jump Up on an ag2 is a marginal skill, a bit like Dodge as the other use of the skill (getting up and throwing a Block) is too unreliable. If you fail the 3+ roll you're left prone. There's four warriors and the beast so repositioning a single warrior quickly after getting knocked down isn't usually a top priority.

If this was some other double than a 12, then I might consider Side step. That's nice too as opponents will hate blocking your warrior even more than they do now.

[sunnyside]

I've been pleased going from ma7 to ma8. Dunno about 6 to the more common 7.

Also a nurgle team tends to move so slow, not like a norse team where I'll shoot from sideline to sideline to drive past a heavier team and I'll be using that ma a lot. So far, in my very limited Nurgle experience, I'm not really using that MA6 except on defense.

[Smeborg]

I am inclined to take doubles over +1MA for Pestigor Blitzers. However, +1MA may be the best choice if the Pestigor is the Runner in the team. It depends what other skills he has. I believe there are no hard and fast rules for Pestigor doubles. I have twice had MA7 Runners, they were awesome, one also had S-Feet (doubly awesome).

+1ST is awesome on a Warrior. I am now inclining to Block as next skill.

I incline now towards Block/S-Firm/Guard as the orthodox skill order for Warriors, ignoring doubles and stat increases other than ST. Yet to be tested fully in practice, but under way.

All the best.

[sunnyside]

I am inclined to take doubles over +1MA for Pestigor Blitzers. However, +1MA may be the best choice if the Pestigor is the Runner in the team. It depends what other skills he has.

It's a young team. That's the first skill roll by any pestie on the team, and the only other skill on the whole team is block on the beast.

Initially I'd like to spread the SPPs some around the pesties by letting different ones be the ball carrier. However this guy could be marked as the eventual primary ball carrier. Barring some other pestie rolling +AG or something like that.

That said, on a Nurgle team would +MA be better than dodge? He's only S3 and there isn't likely to be much guard on his cage corners, so dodge would seem nice against incoming S5 break tacklers, leapers, and generally for getting out of a compromised cage or punching through their line to move that last bit of distance for the TD after a grind across the field.

I'm seriously asking. I've got experience with dodge, but I'm totally new to nurgle, and haven't taken +MA on a MA6 player before on any team. My theorybowl feeling is that it wouldn't have the spice going to MA8 or MA9 does because even if you're faster than your team mates, you're either not any faster or not much faster than the other team.

[Dzerards]

I don't know if 1 dodge in the Nurgle team is worth it or not. Dodge is a great skill but its strength depends on how much you can put in the field. In the long run it is too easily negated.

Where as a MA 7 Pest is quite good, especially on a slow team like Nurgle. That said I turned a move boost down on my single Pest to give him Block to go with his Sure Hands. However I snap it up as his third skill, or on any on the other Pestigors when I get round to getting them.

I got to say I like the Block/Stand Firm/Guard Warriors. Those guys would be uber annoying!

[Smeborg]

In my experience, +1MA is extremely good on a Pestigor Runner. I have had this 2 or 3 times in leagues.

The main problem on offense for Nurgle is simply slowness, especially when they need to score "quickly" (say in 3 turns). +MA goes a long way to solving this problem. The idea is to create a Runner who is good at moving the ball securely and at speed. Skills like S-Hands, K-Ret, X-Arms, and S-Feet/Sprint on doubles work well for this dude. Forget about ball protection (Block etc.).

For Pestigor Blitzer types (Wrestle/Fend/Tackle is my preferred route, but it is not the only one, obviously) extra speed is also very handy. It means they can "deliver" their 2D Horned blitz over a wider potential range, and it makes them better receivers too.

Nurgle players are not obvious candidates for Dodge (in the way that Chaos players are - I have seen massed Dodge work extremely well on Chaos teams). The problem is that Dodge is not a great early skill for the Warriors (because of AG2), and it is questionable for the poor Rotters (because it is likely to be the only skill they ever get). So you have only the Pestigors who might reasonably take it as an early skill. My experience is that if you have a few Dodgers on a team, they are easily taken out (blocked, blitzed or marked) by your opponents' tacklers. But of course Block/Dodge/S-Hands is great for holding the ball (plus perhaps K-Ret, X-Arms, Fend, F-App - take your pick).

I am inclined to take the speed, but I do not always decide this way. For example, if you have AG4, then Dodge is a rather easy choice to make.

Hope that helps.

[SunDevil]

+1ST is awesome on a Warrior. I am now inclining to Block as next skill.

I incline now towards Block/S-Firm/Guard as the orthodox skill order for Warriors, ignoring doubles and stat increases other than ST. Yet to be tested fully in practice, but under way.

I am doing the same, as evidenced my the number of times I've referred to myself as a 'Deacon acolyte' on the podcast.

So far, after 9 Nurgle games -

Warrior - Block
Warrior - +ST (2 SPP from Block, then on to Tentacles!)
Warrior - Block
Warrior - Block, Stand Firm

The one Block/StF Warrior got to use the StF at least twice in my last game. Granted, I lost 2-0 to Pauly's Slann but the StF stymied the Froggies for a few turns. I can't wait until the entire group Stands Firm! (Including my 2nd Beast, who had to be bought when Dwarves broke the first Beast's leg for -MV)

As for the +MV Pesty, I'd take the doubles, either Dodge or Jump Up. I don't find 7MV all that faster than 6MV and the team is still slow overall. Jump Up at least guarantees his 6MV, even when knocked over, and I think that helps the team's short range manueverability. That helps more than one player moving 1 more space, imho.

[sunnyside]

I went with the +MA. We'll see how it turns out. Though I'll admit to be exceedingly nervous about smeborgs advice regarding not taking block. Those pesties just seem vulnerable, and I've got a stat increase to protect. They aren't like undead ghouls either where you might choose to leave one on the bench for D. I think Nurgle needs all the positionals on the field.

Or do you guys bench your running pesties?

[mattgslater]

I think you can bench one Pestigor on defense, so you can run three specialist Rotters, say. For instance, if you have a ST4 Rotter, you can also start a Kicker and a DP on defense.

But I'd run MA7 boy all the time. He's got the speed and strength to play safety or rush the passer.

[Smeborg]

sunnyside - I find the Nurgle defense works well with 3 Pestigors (one in 3rd line behind the Beast in a "sweeper" role, and 1 in each of the wide zones in second line - ready to strike "deep" in the event of a Blitz, early turnover, or short kick). If I have the luxury of a 4th Pestigor, I will often put him on the LoS, especially if he is a rookie with no SPPs - there always seems to be at least one of these! 2 Rotters only on the field is ideal, for maximum speed and survivability. The main place for Rotters is on the bench! Although in theory I might put the Runner Pestigor on the bench in defense, in practice I rarely have that luxury, and when I do, he is often my best player, too valuable to be kept off the park.

SunDevil - I always start the season with a doubles plan for the Pestigors, but in practice this has never eventuated as planned (normally because of stat increases). My doubles plan this season (for the 3 Pestogor Blitzers) was S-Step first, then J-Up (control the wide zones, protect the Pests, threaten the ball, especially when caged). I like the idea of J-Up (this is theory-bowl only), but a J-Up Block does not use Horns, therefore I suspect (theory-bowl) that you would often not choose to take the Block, preferring the Blitz. Hence S-Step first, as a surer way to threaten the ball.

Doubles on the Runner Pestigor seems to vary according to his prior skill development. For example, +1MA invites S-Feet, +1AG invites Dodge etc. On a 5,5 roll I would be inclined to take +1MA, unless prior skill advances invite Dodge.

Hope that helps.

[Smeborg]

Some funny CAS stats for my current team (25 games): 58 CAS inflicted, 37 CAS suffered.

The 37 CAS suffered has led to 17 deaths and retirements (nearly 1 in 2 CAS!) as follows:

1 Warrior retired
3 Pestigors killed, 2 retired. One of those killed was carrying an injury.
8 Rotters killed, 3 retired. One left on the roster is carrying an injury (-1AG). [2 injuries inflicted together on a Rotter due to Decay are counted as 1].

Now, although my fellow coaches consider that I have a rather aggressive retirement policy, I have actually only retired 6 players (say 1 every 4 games). It looks as though my selective CAS memory is correct for once (I feel I have failed a disproportionate number of Regen rolls on dead and crippled players). If I do the maths backwards:

12 Rotter deaths/injuries x 9/5 = (say) 21.6 CAS, plus
7 dead/injured Regen players x 6 = (say) 42 CAS, gives
a nominal total of 63.6 CAS (way higher than the 37 CAS actually suffered).

Loss of players is the Achilles heel of Nurgle in a league, especially if combined with the "curse of Nurgle" (failing Regen rolls for dead and permanently injured players). But I have been reasonably lucky in that the Beast and the Warriors have hardly been scratched. I suspect the Block/S-Firm development policy has something to do with this, although this cannot be proved.

100 SPPs and 7 skills have been lost, 236 SPPs and 16 skills remain on the roster. 2 players (both Pestigors) account for 8 of the 16 skills on the roster (and 130 or 55% of the SPPs). Obviously the team remains vulnerable, but this does not seem to bother them. After 25 games, 7 out of 14 players on the roster are rookies! Newcomers to Nurgle are warned...

All the best.

[sunnyside]

Hmmm. That seems to reinforce the idea that it's great to try and focus SPPs on the warriors.

Do other people also feel they last longer than pesties? On one hand the warriors are more likely out in front where they could get hit. But they have heavier armor, more strength to avoid bad blocks, and a pair of four skill pesties beg for fouls in a way four two skill warriors don't.

[Carnis]

Hmmm. That seems to reinforce the idea that it's great to try and focus SPPs on the warriors.

Do other people also feel they last longer than pesties? On one hand the warriors are more likely out in front where they could get hit. But they have heavier armor, more strength to avoid bad blocks, and a pair of four skill pesties beg for fouls in a way four two skill warriors don't.

It's obvious they last longer than pesties.

If you want to build a team that lasts through the ages you focus SPP on players that survive and of those players the ones who have least SPPs. I recently lost both my ST/Wrestle rotters..

Also Monni died..

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=playe ... id=7434936

I dont think you will have SPP-retaining issues following a simple guideline of skilling the least SPPd NW/pest first, and using your existing stars to facilitate that.

For me the existing AG5 surehands pestigor is the catalyst, that keeps handing those 2+ short passes to cages with waiting NWs/rookie pestigors for touchdowns, and the other NWs with all the murderskills are the players who let my rookie less developed NWs fight against a handicapped foe every game (giving them better chance of getting free blocks). This all adds up to a sustainable advantage, as long as you dont fight MB/Claw/PO/Frenziers daily.

[mattgslater]

Hmmm. That seems to reinforce the idea that it's great to try and focus SPPs on the warriors.

Do other people also feel they last longer than pesties? On one hand the warriors are more likely out in front where they could get hit. But they have heavier armor, more strength to avoid bad blocks, and a pair of four skill pesties beg for fouls in a way four two skill warriors don't.

It's obvious they last longer than pesties.

If you want to build a team that lasts through the ages you focus SPP on players that survive and of those players the ones who have least SPPs. I recently lost both my ST/Wrestle rotters..

Also Monni died..

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=playe ... id=7434936

I dont think you will have SPP-retaining issues following a simple guideline of skilling the least SPPd NW/pest first, and using your existing stars to facilitate that.

For me the existing AG5 surehands pestigor is the catalyst, that keeps handing those 2+ short passes to cages with waiting NWs/rookie pestigors for touchdowns, and the other NWs with all the murderskills are the players who let my rookie less developed NWs fight against a handicapped foe every game (giving them better chance of getting free blocks). This all adds up to a sustainable advantage, as long as you dont fight MB/Claw/PO/Frenziers daily.

Solid advice all around. Certainly, the trick behind winning with Orcs is to get SPP on the BOBs, and that's got to be even more true for NWs, which your opponent actively wants to avoid.