Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[mattgslater]

ST5/Block/SF/FA = unhittable. Just sayin'.

[Dzerards]

ST5/Block/SF/FA = unhittable. Just sayin'.

You can hit him all right. Just don't be expecting too much to happen as a result of hitting him!

[mattgslater]

Yeah. Well, expect to waste actions. Even if you manage to net ST6 against him, you've got 5/6x5/9 to knock down, or 25/54, under 50%. If you don't knock him down, you get nothing!

If he doubles again at 16, take Side Step instead. Just keep him away from Ripper. Either way, Break Tackle at 31 (or Dodge on doubles).

[Dzerards]

Is Side Step a better doubles choice than other skills considering you can get Stand Firm on a normal? If you have the ball carrier in your tentacles of your side-stepping beast, surely it is easier to push him off than a stand firm beast. You just have make sure the other adjacent squares to the ball carrier are filled with either your players or his.

I know SS gives you heaps of evil options most of the time, but if you really need the beast to stick to someone you can't beat SF.

[mattgslater]

Okay. Sure. I generally think of SS as slightly better for off-the-LOS duty than Stand Firm. Since it's either-or, you check off the same skill box no matter which you take. Yes, SS adds 50% more to your TV, but it's really better considering the two hypothetical pieces side-by-side, where the TV difference is only 5%.

[sunnyside]

Is Side Step a better doubles choice than other skills considering you can get Stand Firm on a normal? If you have the ball carrier in your tentacles of your side-stepping beast, surely it is easier to push him off than a stand firm beast. You just have make sure the other adjacent squares to the ball carrier are filled with either your players or his.

I know SS gives you heaps of evil options most of the time, but if you really need the beast to stick to someone you can't beat SF.

Well, to put it in perspective with Mattgslater, once legislation passes that allows for marriage to include a union between a man and a concept we're expecting him to legally marry Side Step. he just loves it that much.

That said he's not entirely without reason. But I'm increasingly thinking less of it in relation to stand firm, particularly when you have to burn a doubles for SS but not SF. Too often myself or an opponent takes advantage of the fact that with SS you do have to move somewhere else, and you do have to let your opponent follow up (barring fend, which seems a delightful combo, but not one I'd suggest for a best).


I kinda do see the point of SF having a defensive aspect on the best though. While it doesn't make him any harder to put down, without it if an opponent can make a 2D block happen they can be pretty confident of at least pushing him off his guys. With SF they'd be risking putting a bunch of players in the things tentacles, so maybe they'd just hit a rotter somewhere instead.

That said multiblock is tempting as a SPP generating, pitch clearing, TRR saving skill. But perhaps it loses it's shine when (if) there are enough block/MB type players developed in the team.

[Dzerards]

Well there is also the aspect of the role of the beast in the team, which I'm sure has been discussed in great detail about 15 pages back! In my mind he has two roles depending on your opposition.

Against Orcs and Dwarfs and such he is just a glorified Troll, he gets stuck in, bashes all round himself. But against faster teams he's brilliant at restricting their mobility with his tentacles and isn't as active. The choice you have when skilling him up is whether or not to specialise him down one track or getting him to do both roles equally well.

Personal choice and all that, but I find Nurgle to be more susceptible to the faster teams and am looking to build my beast to best counter them.

[sunnyside]

Personal choice and all that, but I find Nurgle to be more susceptible to the faster teams and am looking to build my beast to best counter them.

I think you should be concerned about the bash teams. Orcs put just as much strength on the table, and bring more armor and skills.

However even if you wanted to target those teams what would you do differently with the beast?

I'm thinking the way to prep for those battles is to try and have at least one black/Claw/MB/PO type beastman on the Cockerel.

[Carnis]

I went Guard with my Block beast (who rolled 6+6, and I took block over +ST).

At 31 with Block/Guard/SF the beast dominates basher teams. I do think guard is the more important of the two skills, as nurgle have very few players to put it in. Especially on a block beast, who rarely gets -2die blocked anyway, so SF only really works against opponents who can muster 6ST. That's rarer than you'd think, so mostly you're better off with boring block/guard as skills #1-2..

Multiblock is nice, but you're better of building killer NWs (who can get claw/block without doubles). Grab is on my list as skill #4 (followed by multi, if still no claw or tackle doubles), but doubt he will ever get there, as he spends time in the LOS .

[Smeborg]

I have a Block/S-Firm Beast at the moment. He is very handy against ST teams, sometimes he will hold up 4 opposing players by himself. He is less effective against AG teams, since he is easily marked out of the game.

If he gets a second double, I am thinking of giving him Dodge, for a Blodge/S-Firm Beast...

Against AG teams, and as a cage-breaker against ST teams, I am leaning towards the view that B-Tackle/Dodge might be the best normal skill/doubles combo. Bear in mind that it is rare for ST players to have Tackle, so Dodge would be nearly as good as Block, defensively speaking.

I prefer +1ST on a 6,6 for the Beast, as it combines so well with B-Tackle, to give 3+ dodges into a standard cage (plus of course the boost to his Tentacles). Last season I had a B-Tackle/Pro/+1ST/S-Firm Beast. He seemed to work very nicely against all teams.

I rarely put the Beast on the defensive LoS, unless I am defending against a one-turn-score.

All the best.

[mattgslater]

Dodge would be nearly as good as Block, defensively speaking.

Try, "radically better" rather than "nearly as good." Block is useless defensively if the opponent doesn't have Block. Tackle+ ability to block ST5/FA/SF is pretty darn rare.

[Smeborg]

Dodge would be nearly as good as Block, defensively speaking.

Try, "radically better" rather than "nearly as good." Block is useless defensively if the opponent doesn't have Block. Tackle+ ability to block ST5/FA/SF is pretty darn rare.

Hi Matt. I agree in theory, but not necessarily in practice. My experience of ST teams is that they tend to load up on Block, or come with loads of it on the roster (Dwarf, Norse). In the case of the latter teams, they also come with Dauntless and/or Frenzy, both of which skills are handy against the Beast (and combine well with Block). When my Block/S-Firm Beast has worked well against ST teams, it has tended to involve plenty of Both Down results by my opponent, especially by Frenzied players. These results would bring down a Dodge/B-Tackle Beast (of course this is not an apples with apples comparison, as you would not play a Dodge/B-Tackle Beast in the same way as a Block/S-Firm Beast).

In favour of your argument is that Block is of strictly limited use against opponents with Wrestle.

I enjoy observing the difference in performance between an "active" Beast and a "passive" Beast. The passive version works well for a turn or two, then seems to lose puff, the active version starts quietly, then seems to get stronger the longer a drive goes on. So it depends on the situation you find yourself in. For my part, I average 3 meaningful drives per game with Nurgle, so I am inclined to prefer the active version. Ditto for tournaments. But I acknowledge that there are situations for which the passive version is tailor-made. The ideal is to develop a Beast with (say) 4 skill advances who can perform both roles.

All the best.

[mattgslater]

If the attacker has either Block or Tackle, but not both, and the defender has any one knockdown-defense skill (Block or Dodge) plus Stand Firm, it doesn't matter which one the defender has: their effect on the odds is the same. That is, if the attacker has only Block, either skill takes your failure perms down from 27 to 20. If the attacker has only Tackle, neither skill has any impact. It's only if you're up against both skills that it's better to defend with Block than with Dodge.

Troll-Slayers are kinda-sorta an exception: against Frenzy/Block, Block is slightly better than Dodge. The only others in this category, however, are Block WAs.

[Smeborg]

Unanswerable proposal - the ideal Beast:

+1ST
Block
Dodge
Stand Firm
Break Tackle
Pro

I rest my case.

[Smeborg]

[quote="mattgslater"Troll-Slayers are kinda-sorta an exception: against Frenzy/Block, Block is slightly better than Dodge. The only others in this category, however, are Block WAs.[/quote]

There are also Norse Blitzers, one-skill Ulfwereners and Werewolves, and one-skill Witches (although my preference for the latter is Wrestle ahead of Block). Block/Frenzy is not an uncommon build (Frenzy is quite popular on Human Blitzers, for example).