Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[mattgslater]

Uh, with the conventional 2-score grind game, up to six turns of OSPT is ideal, to get you into scoring range. How is this any different for Nurgle?

[Smeborg]

Matt - in my experience, Nurgle don't play a classic 2-1 grind game. They play their own version, which is a classic 1-0 game.

sunnyside - in my experience of caging plays, the cage generally advances on average one and a half squares per turn (against reasonable defence). Nurgle might be slightly below this average, given their clumsiness and lack of starting skills. But 1.5 squares per turn is a good rule of thumb. It underlines the need to form the cage as far upfield as possible, and the need to be ready for a hand-off (or even passing) play when the cage clearly will not make it to within running distance of the end zone. This is especially the case when you have less than 8 turns available for the drive.

All the best.

[Smeborg]

I forgot to add: Congrats for 450 replies on this thread!

[mattgslater]

What I was trying to say is... if you can get a clear shot forward with the ball-carrying Pestigor, he only needs to advance 7 squares downfield. So you have 5-7 turns to get halfway down the pitch. I fail to see how the pitch is longer for Nurgle, or how MA6 somehow doesn't mean MA6.

It seems to me this team would really benefit more than most by developing a line-scheme that generates a midfield cage just by the blocking strategy. That way, you can deliver the ball halfway to scoring range right away, giving you plenty of time to OSPT. I can see how it would take awhile to get there....

[Smeborg]

Matt - the reason that the pitch is "longer" for (starting) Nurgle is because:

(a) Nurgle start without blocking skills (unless you count Horns as a blocking skill). Orcs (a team of similar speed) start with 4 players with Block. This gives Orcs more knockdowns against players without block (whether from blocks or blitzes), creating more available space (free of tackle zones) to re-form the cage, or to manoeuvre generally.

(b) Nurgle start without Sure Hands, thus they face a bigger problem on offense when the ball is spilled (compared to, say Orcs or Dwarfs, who are more likely to pick up the ball and carry on as though nothing had happened).

(c) Nurgle typically start with 2 re-rolls in a league, thus their appetite for risk when re-forming the cage (GFIs, for example) is naturally lower than those teams that start with 3 re-rolls. This risk appetite is further lessened by the lack of starting re-roll skills (Sure Hands, Dodge, Catch, Pass) which most teams have at least some of.

(d) The best starting roster for Nurgle (IMO) has just one Pestigor, thus the starting team is slower than Orcs, and even slower than Dwarfs (by one point of aggregate MA). If the lone Pestigor is put into the dugout (he is an obvious target), all ball movement must be done by MA5 players.

Other than these, I of course agree that the pitch is not "longer" for any one team than for the rest.

All the best.

[sunnyside]

On the note of the warriors vs rotters/pesties in the cage.

I'm wondering if part of it is sending the cage flying forward.

I'm partway through a game, and if not for a bad roll, I'd have been left with an opportunity to send the cage a fully 6 steps, putting them on the other side of the defensive players.

However doing that would leave the NWs behind, and the elves could easily dodge away and make a swarm attempt on the cage itself.

Now, I'm used to making moves like that with Norse, because the players can really capitalize on that sort of thing and make a move, but I could see nurgle getting in over their smelly heads.

So is part of playing nurgle a bit of discipline in terms of not going for the big moves unless you're pretty sure the defense can't respond?

[Smeborg]

sunnyside - if I have a choice, I prefer to put the Warriors at the front of the cage (nearer the opponent's end zone), so that they are less likely to be left behind on the next or subsequent turns. You may get this choice on the first turn of offense, or on turns when the cage moves only a small distance. But often you will get little choice in the matter.

As for "sending the cage flying forward", there are opposing principles at work. If the cage is isolated (i.e. the other players have been left behind), then any opponent worth his salt will swarm it, leaving you with limited choices (typically you must attempt to score immediately, or move backwards to re-form the cage). But other things being equal, it is usually best to move the cage as far forward as it will comfortably go (because a cage can easily get stuck in place for one or more turns, or even be forced to go backwards).

Although the cage may look solid, this is an illusion - it is better to think of each cage as a temporary, one-turn shield, constructed from whatever materials are to hand. Swarming the cage and marking all players within reach is a highly effective tactic against the Nurgle cage, although you may find that only the more experienced opponents have the courage and skill to do this as a matter of routine.

The Beast makes a poor cage corner, because he may lose his tackle zones any time he tries to do something. I find that the best use for the Beast on offense is as a nearby mobile support to the cage, tying up the closest and most dangerous opposing players. There will of course be occasions when the Beast makes a good cage corner (typically when he has moved or blitzed already in the turn).

Hope that helps, and happy caging!

[Smeborg]

OK, there are a couple of recurrent talking points at the moment on this thread:

- How to advance the Nurgle cage, and

- Wrestle on the Nurgle team.

ADVANCING THE CAGE: I don't rely on putting opposing players into the dugout in order to advance the cage. Instead, I rely on a Nurgly stymie style of play to tie up opposing players. For example, this season I have 2 Nurgle Warriors with Block/S-Firm (the Beast also has S-Firm, Block - an experiment for me, I usually go B-Tackle, Pro). As well as tying up opponents, these 3 players get to lay down plenty of blocks, as their opponents cannot easily push them away. This in turn contributes to armour penetrations and stun results, but not that many KOs or CAS. This works fine. I will also foul targets of opportunity on offense, but I don't foul "systematically". I am considering Tentacles as the 3rd skill on the Block/S-Firm Warriors (to further emphasise this style of play).

WRESTLE: I see Wrestle as a fairly essential skill on this team. Without starting Block on the team, Wrestle is a good poor man's substitute for Tackle (you need to have a reliable way to take down Blodgers). I have a strong preference for Wrestle on the Pestigors (it combines very well with Horns, and I do not build slayers on this team), leaving the Rotters free to take Block. But I acknowledge that giving Block to the Pestigors and Wrestle to the Rotters might work OK. I have difficulty imagining a satisfactory Nurgle team without Wrestle on at least some of the ST3 players. A main problem with Rotters is that they die fast (Decay, no Apoth, no Regen), and hence lose their precious skills. I have never got a Rotter to his 3rd skill. Any skill development plan needs to take this into account. Conversely, one of my Pestigors this season has got Wrestle, Fend, Tackle. He is excellent in all phases of the game, and the Fend gives him good survivability and mobility. I would like to have 3 of these guys, but unfortunately his colleagues keep dying... (not as fast as the Rotters, though).

All the best.

[sunnyside]

I guess it just seems really weird to put wrestle on what i would consider the ball carriers. Nurgle has few enough pesties and a hard enough time scoring to start without giving stunties a decent shot at wanding into a cage and getting the ball carrier down on a defenders choice block with re-roll. To say nothing of the leapers and break tackle types, or any player if the pestie is having to scramble and take a chance at getting hit.

I suppose I've seen a number of people advocating a single ball carrier pestie. That just seems like such a vulnerable system.

[Smeborg]

I guess it just seems really weird to put wrestle on what i would consider the ball carriers. Nurgle has few enough pesties and a hard enough time scoring to start without giving stunties a decent shot at wanding into a cage and getting the ball carrier down on a defenders choice block with re-roll. To say nothing of the leapers and break tackle types, or any player if the pestie is having to scramble and take a chance at getting hit.

I suppose I've seen a number of people advocating a single ball carrier pestie. That just seems like such a vulnerable system.

sunnyside - I am one such coach who advocates a single ball carrying Pestigor (a Runner). I used to try to build 2 of them, but I now consider 1 to be the right number.

The non-ball carrying Pestigors (3 in number) are the Blitzers, for me (ball hunters on defense, path clearers on offense). They are very active on both defense and offense. They are typically exposed to attack most of the time, and are favourite targets, hence the need for more than 1 of them. The Runner Pestigor is less exposed to direct attack (on offense, at least).

Most of my TDs are scored by pure running plays. Where a hand-off play is required, any standing AG3 player will do as the receiver. I build my Rotters: Block, Fend, (Foul Appearance), which is well suited to receiving, their only disadvantage in this role compared to Pestigors is their lower MA. In case of need, a lone Pestigor with Wrestle, Fend can be kept within reach of the end zone even if you expect him to be knocked down (especially on a both down/Wrestle), allowing for a (relatively rare) passing play to the end zone when your offense is in trouble.

Lastly, if my Runner Pestigor is killed or retired (as happened last season), I simply re-build a new one from scratch. This is relatively rapid, as the Runner gets more SPPs than any other player on the team.

I can only say that this system works very well for me, and better than other systems that I have tried. It is important to think about role definition for the Nurgle player types, as you are doing. This means you are close to developing a good strategy for your team. Just remember to let us know how you get on!

[Dzerards]

I've a question about order of purchases.

I went the 1 Pestigor, 2RR build. Finished my 4th game last night in our local TT league. Results so far: 0-1 vs 1170TV Humans, 1-1 1310TV Dark Elves, 1-0 1000TV Lizardmen, 1-0 1390 TV Undead. So two wins, a draw and a loss is not too bad, but the team is really slow to develop. Typical Nurgle I suppose.

Team is:
Beast 0SPP
NW 5SPP
NW 5SPP
NW 0SPP
NW Block 8SPP
Pestigor Sure Hands 10SPP
Rotter 3SPP
Rotter 2SPP
Rotter -1 MA 0SPP
Rotter 0SPP
Rotter 3SPP
3FF
2RR
120k banked
1070TV

Rolled , 10k, 30k, 60k (rerolled from a 1), and 20k (rerolled from a 1!) for winnings. Sucks!

Question is, I'm I crazy to hold off buying the 2nd Pestigor in favour of saving for the 3rd reroll? While I've been doing okay with 2, a 3rd could really speed up the development of the team, whereas a 2nd Pest is just another ST3 AV8 player. Actually the extra movement and horns is good, but my first Pest needs Block ASAP and I think the 3rd reroll helps both him, and the Nurgle Warriors, to develop faster in the short term. Plus once I get that 3rd RR it can't die and I never need to buy another.

Plus the low TV has been letting me induce Grashnak, who is awesome! 3 dice blitzes times 2 with Frenzy and mighty blow! So evil.

[Carnis]

Rolled , 10k, 30k, 60k (rerolled from a 1), and 20k (rerolled from a 1!) for winnings. Sucks!

Question is, I'm I crazy to hold off buying the 2nd Pestigor in favour of saving for the 3rd reroll? While I've been doing okay with 2, a 3rd could really speed up the development of the team, whereas a 2nd Pest is just another ST3 AV8 player. Actually the extra movement and horns is good, but my first Pest needs Block ASAP and I think the 3rd reroll helps both him, and the Nurgle Warriors, to develop faster in the short term. Plus once I get that 3rd RR it can't die and I never need to buy another.

I made a habit with my team in fumbbl: http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=613494 to never buy a new pestigor before the previous one had either Block or mighty blow (to generate SPPs from blocks).

3 pestigors certainly aren't worth 240k, but 3 pestigors with BLOCK are worth 300k.

I also made a rule of not taking any skills that don't expedite SPP generation as skill #1 for pesties/NWs so all of them got either MB/Block or a stat. The same strategy wasnt applied to rotters, who received wrestle each (after the initial Dirty player).

I have no idea how to manage the beast productively (SPP-wise) in such a team though, my first one died after stand firm and my 2nd one has got 10 blocks in 3 games, because at this TV there's ALWAYS a better plan it seems.

[Smeborg]

...the team is really slow to develop. Typical Nurgle I suppose.

Question is, I'm I crazy to hold off buying the 2nd Pestigor in favour of saving for the 3rd reroll?

Gerard - Nurgle are really slow to develop. This is mainly because they score few TDs compared to other teams, often one less than other bash teams (e.g. 1-0 instead of 2-1). Decay on the Rotters also means that the team loses acquired SPPs faster than other teams. The Warriors are like Black Orcs - they take for ever to skill up.

I would recommend that you buy a second and a third Pestigor before worrying about a third team re-roll. This system works well for me.

If you buy more Pestigors, you should find that the team skills up more quickly (the Pestigors are better at scoring TDs, and also better at retaining SPPs). So both your questions have the same answer.

All the best.

[SunDevil]

Still loving this thread as my Nurgle crew, the Masters of Ceremony, head into the second half of this season with a 3W-1L-2T record.

Dick Clark, a Nurgle Warrior, rolled +ST last game so he now gets fast-tracked (we select 3 candidates for MVP in our local leagues) for Block and TENTACLES!

Also have a 4-AG, Block Pesty named Guy Smiley. I think my team takes after Smeborg's with all the stat boosts and I know it does in how I am playing them.

Thanks again to everyone giving great Nurgle tips here!

[Smeborg]

SunDevil - your team does indeed look very much like a younger version of mine. The +AG on the Pestigor runner is about the most precious skill advance you can get. My best Nurgle teams have always included a Pestigor Runner with one or two stat increases. The biggest weakness of Nurgle is the unreliability of their offense. Once this disadvantage is overcome, you should notice a step up in team performance.

I'm planning to give Tentacles to my +1ST Warrior as his second skill advance (before Block). I'm not going to hold my breath though, he's still on 13 SPPs after over 20 games!

All the best.