Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[mattgslater]

Heavy Edit 22 Aug, 1600 GMT
Ah, he has Block. Go for it. Just remember it will sometimes fail. I'm used to using ST4/Grab (50/30/1 on 81 perms to push/pow/skull, with one share TRR use) or Ripper (1045/385/28 on 1452, with marginal TRR risk). The Beast, with Block and Stupid, gets a straight-up fail chance (bold), netting 7300/4320/2811/185 on 15,552, with even more marginal TRR risk. Back o' the envelope, 7300/15,552 < 50%. In a diagonal line-blocking scheme against a 101 line, your third block only gets one hit. That means you want to be ready to block the other direction if this guy goes stupid, rather than blocking-and-following to open a hole. Perhaps use the diagrams I posted, but move "u" one square to the right and "a" one to the left, so you can make diagonal line-blocks into the minder ("d" on the LOS, in the 3 column). That way, you get an extra smack in case the Beast ("B", formerly "g") goes stupid.

– a – – – – –
d B – u b c –
– – x x x – –
– x – – – x –

Another option: This one uses 8 men, but only 5 or 6 of them have to act, and the other 2-3 can peel off to do something else once you've made a 2d and three 3d hits (about a 4% chance of turnover before considering TRRs, less after considering the odds of stupid or triple-pow). B = Beast w/Block/Guard/Grab, f = Frenzy, g = Guard/ST4, preferably Block. Assuming 2 squares back, to show how to get the extra block without burning extra actions. Note that this assumes ST3 lines; against ST4, you have to settle for 2d or game to use stronger players. Fend across the line doesn't stop it, but you have to use an extra action, ditto if you have no Frenzy. SF or SS across the D-line kills it, of course. Particularly, you don't care if the defending player has Block, Dodge or Wrestle, or if his mates have Guard, until block 3B, which is 3d for a knockdown, or 2d if the nose has Guard.
– – f – o o –
– o B o g o –
– – x x x – –
– – – – – – –
– x – – – x –

1: Center opens up on end. Center needs to be stronger than end if whole DL has Guard, but not if anyone doesn't.
– – f – o o –
– o B – g o –
– * o x x – –
– – – – – – –
– x – – – x –
If push, then the Beast's minder on the outside drives the defender away from the center with the Beast's assist (Guard). Follow or don't; the extra marks show where to push (y) or pow (z).
– – f – o o –
– o B – g o –
– – o x x – –
y – z – – – –
– x – – – x –

2: Beast does a 3d grab.
– – f – o o –
– o – x g o –
– * o B x – –
– – – – – – –
– x – – – x –

3a: Frenzy, 3d. You may end up moving the Beast's minder first, so I left his square empty.
– – – – o o –
– – – f x o –
– * o B x g –
– – – – – – –
– x – – – x –

3b: Frenzy, 3d unless the end has Guard.
– – – – o o –
– – – – f o –
– * o B x * –
– – – – – – g
– x – – – x –

4, 5: Cleanup blocks. Ready to blitz the squishy safety with or without g's assist. I removed the second row, because they're not part of the line-blocking action once you've made all your 3d hits. They may blitz, or move to help you cage, or maybe both.
– – – – f o –
– * o B – * –
– – – – * – –
– x – – – g –

[Carnis]

See, now you ruined it ;<

You already had the basics stripped down to it, ie all that is needed.. The idea is just having the 3 players & the grab. Now in your newer post you added layers of complexity thus killing creativity and hiding the entire simple idea within the more complex diagrams.

[Kwakkie]

I'll be playing Nurgle in a league in the (very) near future. It looks like the league will be very "agility heavy". My nurgle team and one orc team are the hardest hitters. The rest will be all sorts of elves, humans, skaven, amazons and stuff like that. What nurgle build would you recommend knowing that I want to start with 3 rerolls. My playstyle cannot afford 2.

I have the following 2 builds:

4 Warrior
1 pestigor
6 rotters
3 RR
30K in bank

or

3 Warrior
3 pestigor
5 rotters
3 RR
20K in bank

The first build has the best disturbing presence of the two, which might be great against the agility teams. On the other hand, it's also the slowest build of the two with only 1 pestigor. I have the feeling that with the first build they'd simply switch from the passing game and play a running game without any problems. And I'll be to slow to stop them.

What do you think? Which build do you prefer?

Related to this: would it be wise to remove a warrior and add the beast for the tentacles in this league (in which case the second build would end up with 2 pestigors)?

[mattgslater]

See, now you ruined it ;<

You already had the basics stripped down to it, ie all that is needed.. The idea is just having the 3 players & the grab. Now in your newer post you added layers of complexity thus killing creativity and hiding the entire simple idea within the more complex diagrams.

Uh, I think you're joking. I'm correct, right? I mean, it's a little more involved, but really it's the same number of blocks and one more skill (or one more block and the same number of skills). Besides, you don't lose the basics just because you move ahead a step. I explained the most basic way to do it, but that's easy to thwart; here's another riff on the theory. Did you suddenly forget the first diagram because you saw the next one?

Those are two different ways to engineer the backfield block. If you don't have the Frenzy or the 8-man front (okay, at least 6 men if you have Frenzy), you can only get one square deep. If your opponent sets up two squares back, you need to commit at least one extra man. Them's the facts; I didn't make 'em up. Don't blame me if that one extra step is a bridge too far. The other two guys are bell/whistle types, who ensure that the blocks are 3d. You can strip them out if you're not afraid of 2d hits. But by my reckoning, added complexity is okay if it comes with better odds.

I think a lot of the question of "how large can my front be?" is "how good is my retrieval squad?" If you're pretty confident that you can secure the ball out of blitzing range and maintain a clear avenue for delivery into the cage with just a few bodies (like a +AG guy and an Extra Arms guy, or something like that) then you want to stack the box, and it's totally okay if you burn seven actions blocking five defenders, so long as your seven blockers form the basis of your cage. I once had an Orc team with a +AG Thrower: every defense they faced was always set way back deep, because trying to rush the passer would just get you chained into oblivion with nothing to show for it. So the cage always formed just fine. That's not to say the offense always worked, but the worst drives, the failed cages, just never happened.

If you want to go strippy on that alternate strategy, then here are the eight guys looked at a different way.

Behind the line: – – A – B C –
You need A. If your opponent sets his midfielders one back, you don't need B or C; at two back, you need at least one of them. If A has Frenzy, you save an action, but you need C to force the second chain. B helps get 3d vs. ST3, but isn't important vs. ST4. If A does not have Frenzy, you don't need C, but you do need B, who has to make a block.

On the line: – A B C D E –
B is the Beast with Grab and Guard. D needs ST4 and Guard. E can be anybody, but you need him. C needs to be able to throw a 2d block. A is optional in theory, but you may need him to get 2d with C and/or to ensure 3d with B.

[mattgslater]

4 Warrior
1 pestigor
6 rotters
3 RR
30K in bank

Hire a Beast as fast as you can.

[number6]

mattgslater & carnis, your arguements have reached epic proportions.
Maybe one day I can deduce the acronyms, slang, numbers, and nuances. Holy cow!
Either way, sounds brilliant, and detailed. Well done.


Kwakkie
Imo take the below setup. Depending on your dice luck.
3 Warrior
3 pestigor
5 rotters
3 RR
20K in bank
I know nothing at all except what I find works, which is mobility imho. The DP denial takes time to learn, and you'll likely benefit early from the Pestigors mobility/ability as you learn the team.
The Beast is awesome, but unruly, and in my experience has trouble getting his Tentacles to work on them Gutter Runners Foul Apperance is a 'pretend skill' for me. Again, dice results being a factor.

[Ullis]

Kwakkie
Imo take the below setup. Depending on your dice luck.
3 Warrior
3 pestigor
5 rotters
3 RR
20K in bank
I know nothing at all except what I find works, which is mobility imho. The DP denial takes time to learn, and you'll likely benefit early from the Pestigors mobility/ability as you learn the team.
The Beast is awesome, but unruly, and in my experience has trouble getting his Tentacles to work on them Gutter Runners Foul Apperance is a 'pretend skill' for me. Again, dice results being a factor.

I like that one but I'd take the 4 warrior (after playing some games with Nurgle). The single pestigor is a bit of a downside but the 4th warrior makes up for it in terms of positioning muscle and nurgly skills.

Foul Appearance is a wonderful skill. Position your warriors so that the opponent has to block them to achieve something (next to ball carriers and in denying positions etc.) and you're sure to get mileage out of it as it will happen every 1 in 6 on average. Seeing opponents use their reroll to get a chance to block a Foul Apperance player is awesome.

[Carnis]

I would likely go with the faster roster, and hire the fourth NW right away followed by the beast.

If your league is a closed one and you have no trouble finding games then I highly recommend building one NW and one pestigor as a killer like this straight away. The other should focus on bashing general like the player on the link, and the other should focus on bashing squishies and take tackle before Block & Claw. These players will virtually build themselves, once you have MB/PO set up, as long as your remember to reroll the failed armor checks too (if it's not totally out of the question due to position).

The rest of the team should be focusing on covering all bases, ie one ballcarrier and a bunch of block/tackle pestigors and a bunch of block/guard NWs.

[Kwakkie]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions. I've set my mind in the 3 warrior / 3 pestigor build. My plan is to roll very good on match winnings

[Smeborg]

What nurgle build would you recommend knowing that I want to start with 3 rerolls. My playstyle cannot afford 2.

Kwakkie - my recommendation is that you should challenge yourself to modify your playstyle by taking 2 re-rolls. There is nothing magical about playing with one re-roll less than you are used to. Starting Nurgle are best played in a conservative (risk averse) style anyway, which is very compatible with having 2 re-rolls.

I have tried a number of different starting rosters, and have found in practice that the best roster (by far) is:

Beast
4 Warriors
1 Pest
5 Rotters
2 Re-rolls

Nurgle play poorly without the Beast. Having him and 4 Warriors from the start helps the team to survive at the beginning of a league. With all that raw strength, they are unlikely to get badly beaten up. With 5 Foul Appearance, 5 Disturbing Presence, and the Beast's Tentacles, results are also better at the start than with other rosters that I have tried. Give it a try yourself! There's only one way to find out...

All the best.

[Carnis]

Hey, I have an unusual for nurgle problem. I have too many stat increases to put the bread & butter skills into my team! I started a nurgle team in FUMBBL as they started the FFB-client beta (which works fantastically, and bugs are being fixed pretty quickly, too!).

I normally plan to put guard/mb/claw on my warriors, guard/SF on my beast and a bunch of tentacles in the mix. The problem with this team is the stat increases though, the RNG has gone mad. Check it out:

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=613494

Now who in that team should take tackle?

I normally put it on at least 2-3 pestigors, but now my AG4 pestigor (due to get tackle) leveled to AG5 so a long way from that. Blodge pestigor was supposed to get surehands, but then I have no-one with tackle in the team AND he rolled doubles (no idea what to pick). The pest #3 ofc skilled up my 3rd +ST, so cant really tackle him either. It's block/tentacles for him.

Pestigor #10 died recently, and I'm not buying it back until my ST pestigor has scored enough to get block. #4 will probably get tackle after MB, becoming the elf-hunter (MB/Tackle/Piling on/Block). But that's not really a good primary tackler, you need one in a team who's not constantly going prone.

The rotters with their wrestle would be natural tacklers, but I like my blitzer to have natural ST4 so it'd have to be a pestigor, a NW or one of the +ST rotters but I'd rather give them tentacles to be honest...

[number6]

Hey, I have an unusual for nurgle problem. I have too many stat increases to put the bread & butter skills into my team!

The Carnis who knows much asks opinions?

In my un-educated opinion, anything with STR 4, would likely benefit from the doubles skill more than the extra Str.
- Leader (cheaper re-roll)
- Jump Up imo is brilliant for a low mobility player. With Stand Firm, brilliant awesome (e.g. knock me down, and I get up and Block you, even with 2 AG).
- Side Step. Yes the Nurgle Warrior who fears no sideline.

The 5 AG Pestigor is sexy. Wow. Then there is that 4 STR Rotter with Wrestle. Can I borrow your dice!!!?

I normally plan to put guard/mb/claw on my warriors, guard/SF on my beast and a bunch of tentacles in the mix. The problem with this team is the stat increases though, the RNG has gone mad.

Your Warriors also make me jealous
As for the Beast, read pages far before this. I find with Tentacles and ppl's willingness to toss a 2 or 3 dice block "my choice" the Stand Firm was far better of an option for a stymy defense.

Blodge pestigor was supposed to get surehands, but then I have no-one with tackle in the team AND he rolled doubles (no idea what to pick).

Still a fan of Leader. Toss out the reg re-roll, lower the TV. Inducing Chainsaws is fun, bloodwieser babes are useful too.
Or Side Step.

Pestigor #10 died recently, and I'm not buying it back until my ST pestigor has scored enough to get block.

Um the site I see have x4 Pestigors. Numbered 6 -9???
Do I or you have the correct site?

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=613494

[Ullis]

I don't really think you desperately need more Tackle on the team in the short term. You have lots of ST and quite a few Wrestle rotters. The Wrestle rotters can bring down Blodgers quite reliably (and as reliably as a Block and Tackle pestigor) if needed. If you ever get Tentacles on the ST5 warrior your team will be a nightmare to play against for agile teams.

[Carnis]

The roster lives on as I play more, Fumbbl games only take about 1.5hours to complete. Anyway, I had another Wrestling rotter there with ST4 , but he died in the game where the ST pest got -AV, Blodge pest got -MA and my beast died . The former beast had stand firm. We evened out on the CAS (against another 2.1M basher team, who had MB/PO instead of MB/Claw), but I rolled 2 BH so in the end I lost the perms 4-1 . Ullis you are probably right about taking down, and also about tentacles. I still feel a lot safer if I have some tackle in there too to cancel dodges.. But probably guard is more useful and the stars won't last anyways .

[Smeborg]

In my experience, Nurgle can survive better than most teams with little Tackle. My following team is currently leading our league (after 21 games):

Beast: Block, S-Firm
Warrior: +1ST
Warrior: Block, S-Firm
Warrior: Block, S-Firm
Warrior: -
Pestigor: +1AG, +1ST, Dodge, Block, S-Hands
Pestigor: Wrestle, Fend, Tackle
Pestigor: -
Pestigor: -
Rotter: Guard
4 Rookie Rotters

The unskilled players (half of the roster) are all caused by player turnover (deaths and retirements), which for me is a very typical Nurgle pattern. I need to get the ST5 Warrior to 16 SPPs (he is on 13) in order to give him Tentacles, at which point this team will become rather interesting. The 5-skill Pestigor is a match-winner in his own right, making the Nurgle offense much more reliable than normal, enabling me to play for the 1-0 classic result. With just one Wrestle and one Tackle, I am quite often reliant on re-rolls and 3-dice blocks to bring down opposing ball carriers, but combined with a classic "stymie" development strategy (and play), this seems to be working fine. I have lost 2 Pestigors with Wrestle, this means I have to play quite carefully for now. The Wrestle/Fend/Tackle Pestigor is a target, his Fend is very good for protection against Frenzy and Piling On. Matches are typically very close, this is a fun and sporting team to play, with sweat and tears on both sides of the table. The Block/S-Firm Warriors (both fairly recent) are awesome, much loved by opponents (think Flesh Golem with Foul Appearance). I tend to put them on the line (which comes at a price - they can get sent to the dugout early in the game).

All the best.