Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[number6]

... However, this defense may fail against ST teams, as the Rotters on the line get put in the dugout. With a full roster, I might put 2 Warriors + a rookie Pestigor on the LoS against ST teams (for longer drives, at least). I might also spread the LoS players (so as to make penetration of the second line slightly more difficult for my opponent). Unless my opponent has Frenzy, I will put all the wide zone players just 1 square from the sideline (sometimes the Warriors will go in front, especially if I need to protect Rotters).

Ok, so this is just variations on the 'Arrowhead' defense? Same layout, just different positionals and or spreading out on the LoS is what I'm getting from this.

Would you (or anyone) have any other defensive setups?
Or is the Arrowhead and variations the only real Nurgle one to use?

For instance, I've been experimenting with putting the BoN more towards one side than the other. As per normal thinking, the opponent avoids the BoN at almost all costs. To balance this I place my more experienced Warriors (Block) and Pestigors on the opposite side so I can stymy more effectively. The BoN then just creeps up on the flank into a solid position as to avoid having my opponent trying to switch their offense to the other side of the pitch. I try to use him as a big fat deterrent to get an ugly scrum going. Mixed results so far, but I'm working on it.

Also, any play layouts for offence? Or is it all just basic playbook stuffs that I should not be so lazy about looking up?
I just keep getting the feeling Nurgle are somewhat different in how they play, so I would assume their setups and adjustments to those setups would be reflective of how they stymy.

I know skill choices play a role in this, but every bit of info helps.

[Dzerards]

Just some notes on offence. I find I need to keep all the beef together moving forward. I've been noticing Nurgle Warriors getting caught up with linesmen or zombies, and lagging behind the cage. And without much guard or block initially, Nurgle can be unreliable in repelling cage breaks without all that ST4 foul appearance goodness. Also the Beast is not a reliable cage corner but is awesome to have close to the ball carrier on offence.

My last game was a case in point, 3 rotters and a NW were suck over on one side of the pitch with a linesman and a blitzer, while a NW double both downing and a stupid beast, left my ball carrier totally exposed on the other side.

I think in future, in offence, I'll not follow up as much with the NW while blocking so they're free to move with the ball and try to use rotters to mark up those the NW knock over so they can't just stand up and mark the NW again. Or if I do follow up, make sure there is a rotter there, to throw a block next turn with the NW assisting and then free to move.

The passive defence worked quite well last game too. He still managed to get through, but there was enough presence back there to force the early score and allow us to equalise that same half.

[Smeborg]

number6 - the main difference of the Nurgle defense is simply the Beast and his Tentacles. I like to position the Beast centrally, in the second line, and with B-Tackle. He thus becomes a mobile threat capable of pinning any receiver in your backfield. As already said, I am prepared in special circumstances to position the Beast to one side (but not normally).

The second difference is all that D-Presence. I find it generally helps to keep most of it in the second line, so that (once again) it is potentially mobile, creating problems for your opponent on his second turn.

The third difference is F-Appearance. Not much, but it helps, both in making penetration of your second line more difficult, and in creating potential problems (aga9in) on your opponent's second turn.

Other than that, don't assume that Nurgle defend completely differently to other teams. You still need to do the basics like any team.

[Carnis]

I've been going with the arrow head in defence:


--- -- -- --|-- -- Ro Ro Ro -- --|-- -- -- --
--- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- ---|-- -- -- --
-- -- Ro --|Nw -- -- Be -- -- Nw|-- Ro -- --
-- Nw -- --|-- -- -- Pe -- -- ---|-- -- Nw -

I seem to have more success against elves (i.e. draws instead of hammerings) when the whole team falls back with the elf advance, trying to always keep the elves in front of the defensive line.

That said this defence doesn't feel very proactive, but every time I aggressively go after the ball, I'm out manoeuvred, out positioned and chasing the game.

Going aggressively for the ball is definedly the wrong thing to do. Your conclusion to move as a line/wall with the elves leaving no holes to walk through is the way to go. The rookie team is very prone to high MA players with dodge, so a wood elf team will likely take you down. Your best bet is to attack first and hope you start numbers up on the 2nd half.

Also, an opponent of mine in another league is taking all Block/Claw/Tents or Block/MB/Tents warriors, and so far having just 2 Block/Tents warriors has been surprisingly effective.

Starting builds: Yours is the best setup against even numbered AG teams with frenzy probably. The opponent must take a 3+ dodge or a foul appearance block vs ST4. Some other ok setups are:

Code: Select all

Hold the LOS, middle is what counts vs slowbies:
-- -- -- --|-- -- Nw Be Nw -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- Ro --|-- Nw -- -- -- Nw --|-- Ro -- --
-- Ro -- --|Ro -- -- -- -- -- Pe|-- -- Ro --

Code: Select all

Backfield-wall variant (not vs frenzy):
-- -- -- --|-- -- Ro Ro Ro -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- -- --|-- -- -- -- -- -- --|-- -- -- --
-- Nw -- --|Nw -- -- Be -- -- Nw|-- -- Nw --
-- -- Ro --|-- -- -- Pe -- -- --|-- Ro -- --

Remember, more important than what setup you use is the plan that goes with it. Keeping a line like in real football is very important, but your highest MA player should be able to cover any mistakes your opponent makes.. But they should go alone, not abandoning the line if it's avoidable.

Your MA4 warriors are the most difficult to reposition, so just locating them centrally is ok more often than not as well.

[number6]

Thoughts on these formation variants ...

-- -- -- --|-- -- Nw Be Nw -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- NW --|-- Ro -- -- -- Ro --|-- Nw-- --
-- Pe -- --|Pe -- -- -- -- -- Pe|-- -- Pe --

or


-- -- -- --|-- -- Nw Be Nw -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- NW --|-- Pe -- -- -- Pe --|-- Nw-- --
-- Ro -- --|Pe -- -- -- -- -- Pe|-- -- Ro --


Get opponents to the outside I figure, and the Pestigors can rush-em.

[Smeborg]

Thoughts on these formation variants ...

-- -- -- --|-- -- Nw Be Nw -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- NW --|-- Ro -- -- -- Ro --|-- Nw-- --
-- Pe -- --|Pe -- -- -- -- -- Pe|-- -- Pe --

or


-- -- -- --|-- -- Nw Be Nw -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- NW --|-- Pe -- -- -- Pe --|-- Nw-- --
-- Ro -- --|Pe -- -- -- -- -- Pe|-- -- Ro --


Get opponents to the outside I figure, and the Pestigors can rush-em.

Those formations might get ugly if your opponent gets a Quick Snap (he might block 7 of your players and still have a blitz). The wings are easily penetrated, since they are only defended by a ST3 player. I would consider these types of formations as situation-dependent (for example, you are chasing the game), but not as "standard".

All the best.

[Smeborg]

A general comment: I have found in practice that Nurgle have one of the most variable defenses of all teams that I have played. The formation varies according to:

- Opposing race.

- Acquired skills of the opponent.

- State of the game.

- Turns left to the end of the half.

etc.

Although every team has variations in its defensive formation, I have found greater variability with Nurgle. That's part of their charm as a coach, and it seems I never stop learning more tricks in this area.

[mattgslater]

I too think you should back it up a square, to prevent chains on the LOS from turning into multiple extra blocks, provide insurance against Quick Snaps, and have one more square on any really fast offensive players on post routes (especially against MA8+).

[Carnis]

Thoughts on these formation variants ...

-- -- -- --|-- -- Nw Be Nw -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- NW --|-- Ro -- -- -- Ro --|-- Nw-- --
-- Pe -- --|Pe -- -- -- -- -- Pe|-- -- Pe --

or


-- -- -- --|-- -- Nw Be Nw -- --|-- -- -- --
-- -- NW --|-- Pe -- -- -- Pe --|-- Nw-- --
-- Ro -- --|Pe -- -- -- -- -- Pe|-- -- Ro --


Get opponents to the outside I figure, and the Pestigors can rush-em.

Those formations might get ugly if your opponent gets a Quick Snap (he might block 7 of your players and still have a blitz). The wings are easily penetrated, since they are only defended by a ST3 player. I would consider these types of formations as situation-dependent (for example, you are chasing the game), but not as "standard".

All the best.

I dont think that actually happens that often. Against dangerous, but slow teams (dwarf, chaos dwarf, good chaos, orc) you should take it down 2 squares. Against fast teams that setup is just nice. I personally tend to put the faster players on the sides, because if your opponent refuses a flank a sidelining NW is all but out of the game. Still, if the oppo has justa few turns then I generally put NWs on the side to force dodges.

I'm beginning to think getting up to 4 players with tentacles is the way to go, btw. That way you'd be spamming the following recipe to meet "all comers":

Block on nw/pest, wrestle on some rotters.
Guard on all NW/beast, and some pesties.
2-3 ST4 tentacles (ST3 player is held 15/36 times). The best bet is putting it on ST5 nw but these are rare gems.. 2nd best is a ST4 pest.
MB/Claw for dmg. 1 MB/PO is preferable as well..
Tackle to kick elven arse, mostly on pesties.

[mattgslater]

It's more than just the quick snap, but I've come around. I used to pshaw the QS (especially on a grind team, which kicks off in about 1.2 meaningful drives per match), and do this with everybody, but the advent of Grab has scared me off of it. Nurgle in particular are not especially subject to line-chains, on account of Foul Appearance. I like the "go ahead and crowdpush me, see what happens!" attitude with the NWs in the sidelines.

I'd be hesitant to use it against heavy teams, or against MA9. The bashers will find a way to hit a Rotter for free and blitz your safety, while the speedsters will be able to get an out-of-range formation, and with any luck will be able to play keep away, with perhaps an extra -1 for Disturbing Presence if you're religious about maintaining it. I mean, yes, that does add another 1/12 to the odds of failing (1/9 minus 1/36), but it's not enough to justify all the skills you passed up for it. Skaven can break into anything.

[Carnis]

I'd be hesitant to use it against heavy teams, or against MA9. The bashers will find a way to hit a Rotter for free and blitz your safety.

I honestly have not seen that happen in hundreds of played and/or spectated games. The amount of players required to execute this grab-push + 2die pow to push your blocker into a freeblock is so far fetched you barely *ever* see it happen..

Infact, I've never seen it done. Can you make diagrams that show how to do it economically?

[mattgslater]

Sure. Five men, five blocks on four defenders. Only one of them need be a push (5/9 odds), and in that case, the 1/3 chance of a pow is a nice consolation. Again, Nurgle are singularly good at adding to its value, with FA and all (an application for which it's better than Block).

The most economical looks like this.
g = Grab, takes an action
u = Guard.
a = anybody, takes an action.
b = somebody scary, preferably with Guard and ST4+.
c = warm body.

– – a – – – –
– g u – b c –
– – x x x – –
– x – – – x –

1: g blocks left end.
– – a – – – –
– g u x b c –
– – – x x – –
– x – – – x –

2: a blocks left end.
– – – – – – –
– g u a x c –
– – – x x b –
– x – – – x –

Fait accompli. You only get one bite (u) at the noseguard, but you can also negate him with space. I'm not in the habit of taking 2x Grab, but if u has it too, he can line up an extra block for a "tight end" (AmF) positioned outside of U. Likewise, if a pushes but doesn't knock down, a player positioned behind B or C can make a "cleanup" hit, knocking the noseguard down the line. You don't care if the end has Block or Guard; you'd only take a "down in square" if the alternative is a skull, even if you have Block and he doesn't. Again, Foul Appearance throws a wrench in the works.

[Carnis]

Hey, with some spamming of damagecausing skills that might actually be worth it. Anyway my team only has room for grab on the beast.. but with that setup would have the beast ending up next to three players too..

[mattgslater]

I actually recommend Grab as a "minder" skill, a #3 on a Pest or Warrior; with Orcs, I like it either as a #3 on a Guard BOB, or #1 on BOB #4, whichever comes first. It's not bad on the Beast as a #3, if you're not into the Break Tackle track (I find that keeping him near midfield means that once he gets Stand Firm, he's seldom out of position; still, I'd use Break Tackle if I had it). Grab is underrated because it competes with Block, Guard, SF and MB, and in the big picture isn't quite as good as those. But as toolbox skills go, it's first rate if a) you can almost 1TTD, or b) your O-line can dominate anything, especially if c) you've been building for defense and need cheap oomph for the other side of the ball. The latter isn't that tall an order, because the offense gets to pick the blocking scheme.

There are several reasons not to use the Beast (or other 0-1 big guy) at "g". First, you don't want to be opening your line-blocking on unskilled 2d Loner hits (Ripper works well because he's ST6, and has 19:7:1 push:pow:skull). Second, your Grabber ends up kind of peripheral after the play is over. He may have a zone on a guy (you decide!), and he may be manning an important spot, but he's not in the middle of the heavy fighting. Third, a Grab Warrior is useful to feed the Beast, and also to open holes against elfy SS teams if you give up a stall and have to rush a TD. Fourth, Grab/Stand Firm is even better in pairs (my friends call it the "Orcish sausage factory"). It makes short work of cages that live off of Guard without Stand Firm, and having two of them makes it easier to keep them in zones. More would be a waste, I think, especially since universal Stand Firm is the antidote.

Maybe, once the Beast hits 31 (SF, Guard, Grab), use him at u. At g, he'd only be in 3x zone if the defense really set up one square back. The first time you do this to them, they will forever set up their defensive backfields two back, to avoid having it done again. Even then, there are ways... and they don't necessarily take more actions.

A few other games to play:

* Try not following with "a" and putting a guy next to him to make an extra block in the event of a push. Then, on turn two, deliver the ball to "a" and use him as your carrier. You can do this with other players on the same level, too.

* Alternately, put the guy next to "a" one more square over, and then do follow in with "a". Then that guy can push the noseguard outside one space, leaving room for an extra block.

* If the opponent sets up two squares back, you can save an action by using a Frenzy player at "a". You may have a little more gaming to do, because you want the first hit to be 3d in that case.

* Frenzy can make it happen in the absence of Grab, but the odds are exponentially lower.

* Instead of opening with Grab, you can make conventional diagonal line-blocks, but follow in on the noseguard instead of staying put. Then make the Grab block #3. This means moving "a" one square out (to the reader's left in the diagram).

Minor variances beg changes in the line order, and it's easy to get wrong until you remember the patterns you use. A lot of this depends on your skill menu, and the relative strengths of the opposition. A generic flowchart would be useless, but you can probably build your own given what you probably know about your league by the time you're that well-developed.

[Carnis]

Well my beast has Block/guard/sf so grab is just on the line for him as skill #4 at 51 followed by multiple block at 76. When he eventually gets MBlock he can 2die 2 players without pushing them off his TZs (if they dont have sidestep).

I think grab is the only natural choice for a non-mobile Block/Guard/SF beast anyway. He'll be able to dominate even more than without. I'm aiming at spamming tentacles on the warriors' extra-skills.